B19 Flyer

[B19 Flyer]

The union doesn't care.

Is the FACT that of all 4 Major Jet Fractional providers, the ONLY one not to furlough its Pilots is the one with a Contract: NetJets.

That does not mean furloughs might not happen in the future if things get bad enough in the economy, but it certainly presents an interesting point.

When Pilots are treated well, and respected by their Management, even if getting to that point needed to be forced by an Industry Leading COntract, is it not possible the company will actually do better than before the CBA?

I submit to you that it is. We are not flying around airliners here with FAs in the back. The Pilots at a Fractional, to the Customer, are the Company.

Happy Pilots make for Happy Customers, more refererals from those satisfied customers, and a spiraling upward spin towards industry domination.

Said in another word: NetJets.


Submitted by a former Flight Options Pilot.

Good Luck my Brothers.

And remember:

Freedom is Not Free. It must be earned.

I haven't ignored it. What I've stated is that the one with the industry leading contract is going to fall the hardest when it falls.

I've also asked repeatedly, will the union make the choice of jobs over paycuts?

The CBA isn't going to protect anybody. When it dries up and the cuts begin, the rank and file workers that NJW stated could have had flying careers if they wanted will get hit first and the hardest. Then, when that pool of cash dries up, the line pilots will get hit next because they will no longer be able to state that everybody needs to share in the pain. In reality, those rank and file folks always get hit the hardest in times like these. The union doesn't care.

 

[Freedom]

Thanks for reposting my Post Bob19....

Putting your weak argument up against mine for all to see says more than I could possibly say in a response.

You just made my case stronger, by reaching for straws.

Thank You.


Freedom is Not Free

 

[B19 Flyer]

Putting your weak argument up against mine for all to see says more than I could possibly say in a response.

You just made my case stronger, by reaching for straws.

Thank You.


Freedom is Not Free

What, the fact the the non-union fracs were able to adjust to the slipping economy quicker thus protecting more jobs down the road than the union carrier was able to?

When the cuts happen at NJ, and unfortunately they will... the high cost of the CBA will double the number of overall (union and non-union) job cuts than it would have if NJ could have begun the process earlier like the others have.

This backs my theory that a company without a CBA can adjust quicker and faster, thus the ENTIRE company is protected rather than one individual work group.

It's not a weak argument, it's one based in fact.

It's a little early in the game to be gloating, but union members like to do that. I'll be sure to remind you when it happens, and those non-union fracs are going to be a lot more stable for the entire workforce when it happens.

As a company, NJ will remain strong, however for the worker, NJ will suffer more than the others directly as a result of the CBA.

Thank you for supporting MY case with YOUR weak argument.

Case in point, Delta's ability to stave off bankruptcy or near bankruptcy for two years longer than the others with minimal impact on the overall workforce because they were the least unionized legacy carrier.

 

[wacoflyr]

Troll baiting. This thread takes an age old flightinfo game to new levels.

Wacoflyr

 

[fischman]

It's not a weak argument, it's one based in fact.

It is a weak argument. It's not based on fact. It's based on your opinion.

Managment reiterated it's stance on no furloughs at NetJets by the way. Who's telling you we are going to furlough? You might want to check your sources (unless his initials are RTS).

 

[B19 Flyer]

Based on FACT.. not opinion!

It is a weak argument. It's not based on fact. It's based on your opinion.

Managment reiterated it's stance on no furloughs at NetJets by the way. Who's telling you we are going to furlough? You might want to check your sources (unless his initials are RTS).

Based in Fact as previously stated:

Case in point, Delta's ability to stave off bankruptcy or near bankruptcy for two years longer than the others with minimal impact on the overall workforce because they were the least unionized legacy carrier.

And.. to add to this, Delta mechanics decided to keep it that way by dumping the NWA union:

Delta mechanics rebuff union

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Thursday, February 26, 2009
The mechanics union at Northwest Airlines will not represent any mechanics at merger partner Delta Air Lines, after failing to garner enough support among the combined mechanics group.
Northwest mechanics were represented by the small Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association, which waged a 15-month strike at the carrier ending in 2006 and was smaller and weaker afterward.
AMFA said in a memo to its Northwest members on its web site that it did not collect enough authorization cards during a card drive to meet the required number to file for representation of the combined workforce. The minimum is generally 35 percent. The union filed to end its representation and the National Mediation Board accepted the request Thursday, Delta said.
The Mediation Board facilitates labor-management relations at airlines and railroads.
The mechanics union faced a steep challenge to unionize mechanics at the combined airline because the Northwest mechanics were greatly outnumbered by non-union Delta mechanics.
About 5,000 employees from Delta and 1,000 from Northwest make up the mechanics and related group, and the Northwest group includes hundreds who are replacement workers from the strike and do not pay union dues.
Northwest is heavily unionized while at Delta pilots are the only major workgroup that is unionized.
As the merger partners combine operations, unions at Northwest can file for elections to extend their representation to Delta employees. The Association of Flight Attendants and International Association of Machinists are working on representation campaigns before seeking a vote.
Delta closed its deal to acquire Northwest last October, and in January mechanics from Northwest approved an agreement to integrate seniority lists with Delta mechanics.
AMFA and Delta have also agreed to a transition commitment with Delta to bring pay, seniority and benefits of mechanics and related employees from Northwest to the same levels as Delta mechanics and related workers. The union said that move would bring the group to be called a single carrier by the National Mediation Board, which would have triggered a process to determining whether the combined Delta employees are represented by a union or not.
“To prolong the single transportation system determination any longer would be a disservice to those that we currently represent at the former Northwest Airlines,” according to the AMFA memo to its Northwest members.
Delta said union dues will be eliminated immediately. The Northwest mechanics will transition to Delta benefits starting in January 2010.

 

[Freedom]

Bob19....McFly, McFly...

How many times do we have to tell you:

THIS IS THE FRACTIONAL INDUSTRY, NOT THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY!

But you know that of course. Its simply you using the only facts available to you to earn your Ford and Harrison paycheck.

Funny, I would have though your Flight Options paycheck would have been enough for you.

But then I forget about your level of GREED.


Since you are so interested in quoting history from the Airline Industry, why don't you spend the majority of your time there instead of here?

Of yeah, I forgot, you get paid to Union Bust for Flight Options Management.


What a tool.


Freedom is Not Free

 

[fischman]

Based in Fact as previously stated:

Case in point, Delta's ability to stave off bankruptcy or near bankruptcy for two years longer than the others with minimal impact on the overall workforce because they were the least unionized legacy carrier.

And.. to add to this, Delta mechanics decided to keep it that way by dumping the NWA union:

Delta mechanics rebuff union

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Thursday, February 26, 2009
The mechanics union at Northwest Airlines will not represent any mechanics at merger partner Delta Air Lines, after failing to garner enough support among the combined mechanics group.
Northwest mechanics were represented by the small Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association, which waged a 15-month strike at the carrier ending in 2006 and was smaller and weaker afterward.
AMFA said in a memo to its Northwest members on its web site that it did not collect enough authorization cards during a card drive to meet the required number to file for representation of the combined workforce. The minimum is generally 35 percent. The union filed to end its representation and the National Mediation Board accepted the request Thursday, Delta said.
The Mediation Board facilitates labor-management relations at airlines and railroads.
The mechanics union faced a steep challenge to unionize mechanics at the combined airline because the Northwest mechanics were greatly outnumbered by non-union Delta mechanics.
About 5,000 employees from Delta and 1,000 from Northwest make up the mechanics and related group, and the Northwest group includes hundreds who are replacement workers from the strike and do not pay union dues.
Northwest is heavily unionized while at Delta pilots are the only major workgroup that is unionized.
As the merger partners combine operations, unions at Northwest can file for elections to extend their representation to Delta employees. The Association of Flight Attendants and International Association of Machinists are working on representation campaigns before seeking a vote.
Delta closed its deal to acquire Northwest last October, and in January mechanics from Northwest approved an agreement to integrate seniority lists with Delta mechanics.
AMFA and Delta have also agreed to a transition commitment with Delta to bring pay, seniority and benefits of mechanics and related employees from Northwest to the same levels as Delta mechanics and related workers. The union said that move would bring the group to be called a single carrier by the National Mediation Board, which would have triggered a process to determining whether the combined Delta employees are represented by a union or not.
“To prolong the single transportation system determination any longer would be a disservice to those that we currently represent at the former Northwest Airlines,” according to the AMFA memo to its Northwest members.
Delta said union dues will be eliminated immediately. The Northwest mechanics will transition to Delta benefits starting in January 2010.

So did you post that hoping no one would read it? All it is is an artile stating that the NWA mechanics union (which is full of scabs) will not represent delta mechanics. It has no bearing on your argument, and I stand by my statement that it is based only on YOUR opinion.

 

[B19 Flyer]

How many times do we have to tell you:

THIS IS THE FRACTIONAL INDUSTRY, NOT THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY!

But you know that of course. Its simply you using the only facts available to you to earn your Ford and Harrison paycheck.

Funny, I would have though your Flight Options paycheck would have been enough for you.

But then I forget about your level of GREED.


Since you are so interested in quoting history from the Airline Industry, why don't you spend the majority of your time there instead of here?

Of yeah, I forgot, you get paid to Union Bust for Flight Options Management.


What a tool.


Freedom is Not Free

A union is a union. It doesn't make any difference if it's the UAW, ALPA, NJASAP. They all work on the same principal. Fear, mobs, mongering and blackmail.

Fractionals are a new industry. Unions are going to ruin them, pure and simple.

Oh, and let me drop a hint to you... a fractional is an airline. Part 119 ... you can't hide from it.

 

[PCL_128]

They all work on the same principal. Fear, mobs, mongering and blackmail.

Sounds more like management to me. You're a perfect example.