B19 Flyer

[PCL_128]

Lorenzo was a son of a b*tch, but he saved more jobs than the union did. If not for Lorenzo, all the jobs at CAL and People's Express (not to mention all the small carriers that were bought up) would have been lost in addition to those at Eastern. He kept Eastern alive a lot longer than it would have been had it continued down that path it was going.

As there is almost nothing written on what Lorenzo did behind the scenes, you will never be able to learn the true story. I've worked with some of his former front line managers, and believe me.. the union asked for and got exactly what they deserved. Those that lost their jobs have the union to blame for those losses, not Frank. All Frank was trying to do was keep the company alive.

There are lots of pilots with serious incomes still flying today that have Frank to thank for saving those companies.

Wow. You truly are a moron.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Wow. You truly are a moron.

Really... if I'm a moron, than I'm one that knows and understands the reality of the man that you don't know as I've worked with those who reported directly to him and were the actual people that were attempting to implement the programs designed. You are going on nothing but what is strictly heresay.

Where are you getting your information to judge him, from reputation or through facts?

Did he not save Continental, People's Express from certain failure and bankruptcy? Do you really know how bad off Eastern had become before he became involved? Financially, Lorenzo was the only one that could have pulled if off it was so bad.

Are you aware that the union came back to him with a five year bargain at CAL after the company had regained profitablilty with the stipulation that he fire the pilots who crossed? He refused the offer even though it would have been a boon to the airline. Lorenzo stood by those that stood by him. Those that actually knew the man and worked directly for him respected him for what he was trying to accomplish and for the jobs they knew he saved and could save.

The rest of them are uneducated like you and go on word of mouth and reputation without any facts for which to base your judgement.

Had either the union responded to how serious the challenges were or he broke the union EAL would probably be around today. Sure, he was a pr*ck, but unions are a lot worse that he could have ever been and have cost a lot more jobs.

You won't give him a shred of respect for the jobs he saved, nor acknowledge the jobs the union lost and for that alone with your ignorance I ask that you educate yourself with a beverage that isn't contaminated with union sewage.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Wow. You truly are a moron.

Just noticed you are flying the 717. Airtran? Go track down Joe L. and have him verify what I wrote. Get properly educated for a change. Most of the old EAL and New York Air management has retired now, but don't be ignorant.. talk with those that were involved at the management level under him, not with those who think they knew out of reputation. I worked with these guys long after those carriers shut the doors. The true behind the scenes stories will never be known as will be any or the current labor struggles from the company side. That's just the way it is.

 

[fischman]

Nice one Fisch....

yeah that was funny....

It's a crappy job, but someone has to do it.

 

[PCL_128]

Really... if I'm a moron, than I'm one that knows and understands the reality of the man that you don't know as I've worked with those who reported directly to him and were the actual people that were attempting to implement the programs designed. You are going on nothing but what is strictly heresay.

One of his right hand men is currently the Senior VP of my airline. He sits across the bargaining table from us and tries to rape us for 12.5% concessions while the company is bragging about record profits for this year. So yeah, I've seen the kind of people that Lorenzo produced, and I'm not impressed. Feel free to get under his desk if you want, but the rest of us know better.

Did he not save Continental, People's Express from certain failure and bankruptcy?

No.

Do you really know how bad off Eastern had become before he became involved? Financially, Lorenzo was the only one that could have pulled if off it was so bad.

Lorenzo raped EAL of its assets to give them to CAL. Are you familiar with the System One fiasco? It should have been illegal. Lorenzo never had any intention of making anything out of EAL. It was nothing but a tool to use to build up his CAL operation, and to hell with the EAL employees and creditors.

Are you aware that the union came back to him with a five year bargain at CAL after the company had regained profitablilty with the stipulation that he fire the pilots who crossed?

Where's the problem?

He refused the offer even though it would have been a boon to the airline. Lorenzo stood by those that stood by him.

"Those that stood by him?" You mean the dirty SCABs? The ones that stabbed their brothers in the back? The ones that helped Lorenzo destroy families and lives? F--- you, f--- Lorenzo, and f--- his SCABs.

Had either the union responded to how serious the challenges were or he broke the union EAL would probably be around today. Sure, he was a pr*ck, but unions are a lot worse that he could have ever been and have cost a lot more jobs.

By the time Lorenzo had gotten a hold of EAL it was already a goner. Boreman had driven it so far into the ditch that no one could save it. No amount of employee or creditor concessions could have helped. He knew that when he took control of the company, but he didn't care because he only wanted to rape EAL of its assets to benefit CAL. Breaking the unions was just the icing on the cake that helped him inflate his horrendous ego.

You won't give him a shred of respect

You're right, I'll never give him any respect. I eagerly await the day that his death makes the news. The sooner he gets to hell, the better off humanity will be.

 

[fischman]

PCL,

Welcome aboard! Looks like you understand B19 now. :beer:

 

[B19 Flyer]

They got what they asked for.

One of his right hand men is currently the Senior VP of my airline. He sits across the bargaining table from us and tries to rape us for 12.5% concessions while the company is bragging about record profits for this year. So yeah, I've seen the kind of people that Lorenzo produced, and I'm not impressed. Feel free to get under his desk if you want, but the rest of us know better.

No.

Lorenzo raped EAL of its assets to give them to CAL. Are you familiar with the System One fiasco? It should have been illegal. Lorenzo never had any intention of making anything out of EAL. It was nothing but a tool to use to build up his CAL operation, and to hell with the EAL employees and creditors.

Where's the problem?

"Those that stood by him?" You mean the dirty SCABs? The ones that stabbed their brothers in the back? The ones that helped Lorenzo destroy families and lives? F--- you, f--- Lorenzo, and f--- his SCABs.



By the time Lorenzo had gotten a hold of EAL it was already a goner. Boreman had driven it so far into the ditch that no one could save it. No amount of employee or creditor concessions could have helped. He knew that when he took control of the company, but he didn't care because he only wanted to rape EAL of its assets to benefit CAL. Breaking the unions was just the icing on the cake that helped him inflate his horrendous ego.



You're right, I'll never give him any respect. I eagerly await the day that his death makes the news. The sooner he gets to hell, the better off humanity will be.

It's clear you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. You are pro-union and haven't the capability to understand that there are two sides to every story. In the EAL saga, the unions were more to fault than the management was. The union CHOSE to shut the airline down, not Lorenzo.

You are wrong in your assessment of CAL, Frontier and Peoples. These are all jobs that were saved by his actions. The EAL deal was just as ugly and gave just as big a black eye to the unions as it did him. The difference is that not a single person has ever written about what happened from the inside out as unions will. Unions love to negotiate in public, companies don't do that.

You need to talk to both sides of the issue, not just the one side. I've worked alongside pilots, mechanics and front line managers. Lorenzo did what he had to do, and he failed because the union chose to put the airline out of business. Period. They got what they asked for.

 

[brokeflyer]

Lorenzo did what he had to do, and he failed because the union chose to put the airline out of business. Period. They got what they asked for.

The smart play then is not have the union......and how do you do that?....treat your employees fairly. There are two sides to every story. Please respect other peoples opinions b19 and you won't have to be so frusted here.

 

[imacdog]

There has been a lot of union talk on the majors board lately. I wonder why we haven't heard a peep from ol' B over there........

 

[PCL_128]

The union CHOSE to shut the airline down, not Lorenzo.

Lorenzo demanded concessions that were so draconian that no one in their right mind would accept them. His untenable position that was formulated with the only goal being to enhance his own ego was what destroyed EAL. You're a clueless fool.