B-1 Gear Up Accident?

[RickKC-135]

Magnum, I'm with you, this shouldn't have been released, but reading the web site it looks like it came from the Navy. I guess that's what happens when you don't own the base.

 

[Falconjet]

Pearl sounds like a class A kiss ass. Nice to have such a cavalier attitude about somebody else's misfortunes.

I'm so relieved that he's not worried about eating brown lettuce. It will go with his nose.

Definitely an Admiral in the making.

There is no way that should be out on the internet.

FJ

 

[SpiderMan]

So will that thing fly again?

 

[Gorilla]

OK guys, devil's advocate time - why should military mishaps, b0ners, etc, NOT be released? If a civil aircraft goes down, all pertinent info is released as it is discovered.

Note I'm not talking about speculation, I'm talking about mishap facts as released by the military itself. Yes, it sucks for the crew, but if they screwed up, then they pay the price. It shouldn't be a hush-hush thing, as if the military is "embarrassed."

 

[stonewall]

OK guys, devil's advocate time - why should military mishaps, b0ners, etc, NOT be released? If a civil aircraft goes down, all pertinent info is released as it is discovered.

Note I'm not talking about speculation, I'm talking about mishap facts as released by the military itself. Yes, it sucks for the crew, but if they screwed up, then they pay the price. It shouldn't be a hush-hush thing, as if the military is "embarrassed."

Often during mishaps, only people directly involved know exactly what happened. They know all the human factors issues going on at home, at work, sleep patterns, family life, 72 hour histories, etc. All those things can contribute to a mishap. AFI 91-202 and -204 specifically deal with MISHAP PREVENTION. We put together TAB T's so other AIRCREW can get all the contributing factors to avoid similar pitfalls in the future.

That said, if you weren't sleeping well, were having an affair, or ANYTHING that might look bad in the press, would you fess up in an accident investigation? Hell, no. Why would you? We use confidentiality to get ALL the facts and contributing factors, no matter how ugly and scandalous they may be, and to prevent the same thing from happening in the future. Nothing like learning from other's dumb mistakes.

If someone breaks a reg or commits a crime, there is an avenue for that. The AIB. All the above stuff deals with the SIB. If the SIB president deems that an AIB is warranted, he gets with the commanders and the JAG and does so. That stuff can be made public.

Sounds like you need to get your annual "safety confidentiality" refresher brief. You guys DO do that in your unit, don't you?

 

[RickKC-135]

Magnum. one slight correction to what you said. An AIB is required by law if the accident cost exceeds 1 million. So to answer the above post. If the accident exceeds 1 million all the facts will be released through the Freedom of Information Act. Note, I said facts. In an AIB they produce a documet called the Summary of Facts, in it they list all the facts of the accidednt and that's it. No speculation or guess on what happened. Then they produce another one called Statement of Opinion, this is the board presidents opinion of what caused the accident. Throughtout this process the lawers review all documents and are present for all questioning. Thier primary job is to protect "privilege", which is what is given to the people interviewed by the SIB. Like Magnum said, without privilege the people interviewed may not tell what "really" happened.

Both boards, the SIB & AIB are very thourough but independant. This allows the military to both comply with the FIA and find out what really happened.

 

[Draginass]

OK guys, devil's advocate time - why should military mishaps, b0ners, etc, NOT be released? If a civil aircraft goes down, all pertinent info is released as it is discovered.

Note I'm not talking about speculation, I'm talking about mishap facts as released by the military itself. Yes, it sucks for the crew, but if they screwed up, then they pay the price. It shouldn't be a hush-hush thing, as if the military is "embarrassed."

Release of some information about mishaps and accidents could give any potential enemy information on weaknesses in equipment or training. Just because you wanna know, doesn't mean you need to know.

 

[stonewall]

Magnum. one slight correction to what you said. An AIB is required by law if the accident cost exceeds 1 million. So to answer the above post. If the accident exceeds 1 million all the facts will be released through the Freedom of Information Act. Note, I said facts. In an AIB they produce a documet called the Summary of Facts, in it they list all the facts of the accidednt and that's it. No speculation or guess on what happened. Then they produce another one called Statement of Opinion, this is the board presidents opinion of what caused the accident. Throughtout this process the lawers review all documents and are present for all questioning. Thier primary job is to protect "privilege", which is what is given to the people interviewed by the SIB. Like Magnum said, without privilege the people interviewed may not tell what "really" happened.

Both boards, the SIB & AIB are very thourough but independant. This allows the military to both comply with the FIA and find out what really happened.

I'd have to look that up. I've been an IO on two Class As (F-16 and MQ-1) in the past four years and neither convened an AIB. One is automatically triggered, but the BP of the SIB can recommend no AIB and if everyone agrees, none is convened. They still might put out a summary of facts, but that's basically Part I of the report. Anyway, I'm not saying you're wrong by the letter of the law, but an AIB wasn't convened in either of the Class A's I investigated. My knowledge isn't complete in that area since I spent all my time writing the Tab T monster.

Other than maybe that, I agree with everything you said. Again, I'd have to look up the reg.

 

[RickKC-135]

Magnum, you're right there is one exception to the Class A misshap rule and that's the F-16. They have so many that they have given up doing AIBs on them. Nobody cares anymore. Just kidding, but it might be true, I saw a Class A with an F-16 flameout and they didn't do an AIB. It can be waived but it's a pretty high official who waives it, and I don't know who that is right now.

 

[Pistlpetet]

Here are some pics of them lifting this thing up:

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Unlisted%2edb&command=viewone&id=41