Awac Survival?

[arthompson]

I hope Geoff tells Tilton and company where they can shove the 146 flying . If he doesn't he needs to make sure you guys get a better deal. All UA pass benifits are going away, for most of you that isn't a problem, but I have a buddy thats very senior in TVC and won't be able to fly in and out of TVC because they're is no US Air flying up there. The agents were told that would not even be allowed "freebies" to/from ORD on the UAX carriers that are replacing ZW. This is all at the direction of UAL management. I have never worked for a regional that was treated so horribly by it's mainline carrier as ZW is/was by UA.

Adam

 

[eastflier]

I have a feeling mesa will be associated with usairways again as soon as the usairways/amwest merger goes through. I was talking to a friend who said that they may be bringing CRJ900's to charlotte. Also it is looking like chautauqua will be doing alot more flying for airways also after they take over mid atlantic. Looks like the "high paying greatest regional in the world" will probable get eaten by the bottom feeders.

 

[Crossky]

Well, If you are on the CL-65, and have more than 1 yr seniority, you are doing it for less than SkyWest, pest, worst, or whatever. Does that make you a scab?

Seeing how you are an ALPA member, what was your union able to do to stop the likes of blojet, mesa, and skypest from taking "your" flying?

fwiw, I do hope to see ALPA at OO

NO. It makes us bitter because we've continually lost flying to union and non-union carriers, and your pilot group uses our strength and benefits by threatening to unionize unless your management gives in to your demands. You get some of the union benefits without paying dues. I do recognize that you have good management and good relations with them however. What's more, you have a good jets for jobs deal with United, effectively nullifying their ALPA MEC's weak position on protecting union jobs other than theirs. How would their MEC act if you didn't allow jets for jobs? I would hope they would be pissed, but I kind of doubt it.

Your second question strikes me as a silly, maintaing standards of living and QOL across this industry requires having solidarity between separate union and pilot groups, obviously this hasn't happened lately.

Is 00 SkyPest? er I mean skywest.

You all sure are proud of your company, how about pressuring your management to pay your newbies in training and giving them a hotel? That practice is unacceptable, even Pinnacle has stopped doing it, and kudos to them.

 

[F/O]

Sounds like UAL is having trouble finding something to replace the 146. They came back to AWAC asking to extend our contract for the 146.

Ooooooooh....big surprise there. I'm just so stunned!

The fact is, as we all know, there is NO airplane that can do ASE as well as the 146. They could use the Q400 but there's no way those could be put on line by ANY carrier the end of next ski season.

 

[miles otoole]

Ooooooooh....big surprise there. I'm just so stunned!

The fact is, as we all know, there is NO airplane that can do ASE as well as the 146. They could use the Q400 but there's no way those could be put on line by ANY carrier the end of next ski season.

We all know the 146 can "do" ASE better than the Dash-8?

 

[F/O]

We all know the 146 can "do" ASE better than the Dash-8?

I'm not just talking about a/c performance...

 

[J32driver]

We all know the 146 can "do" ASE better than the Dash-8?

Haul 'em in and out, 100 at a time, full of bags, for about a 20 minute flight. Yeah... I'd say thats better than the -8.

 

[rtmcfi]

NO. It makes us bitter because we've continually lost flying to union and non-union carriers, and your pilot group uses our strength and benefits by threatening to unionize unless your management gives in to your demands. You get some of the union benefits without paying dues. I do recognize that you have good management and good relations with them however. What's more, you have a good jets for jobs deal with United, effectively nullifying their ALPA MEC's weak position on protecting union jobs other than theirs. How would their MEC act if you didn't allow jets for jobs? I would hope they would be pissed, but I kind of doubt it.

Your second question strikes me as a silly, maintaing standards of living and QOL across this industry requires having solidarity between separate union and pilot groups, obviously this hasn't happened lately.

Is 00 SkyPest? er I mean skywest.

You all sure are proud of your company, how about pressuring your management to pay your newbies in training and giving them a hotel? That practice is unacceptable, even Pinnacle has stopped doing it, and kudos to them.

Crossky-
Yes, OO is SkyWest. My second question was really directed at the fellow I was quoting. I agree with everything you wrote. I was not kidding about hoping to see ALPA on property. There are lot's more like me at OO. Hopefully the next vote goes diferently.

I am not certain the OO pilots are to blame for ZW leaving the UAX fold. ZW did not exactly put the screws to the pilot group to accept a combined 50 & 70 seat rate. The pay rates/ QOL for the 50 seat are pretty much a wash between the two. How much of a profit does CJT need to make to consider a contract do-able? Perhaps OO mgmt was willing to accept a smaller profit margin?

 

[arthompson]

One of the things that has to be considered in business is that CJT pays a higher tax rate than most airlines save YX because of the fact it is based in WI. WI is not friendly to business at all. So that is a consideration in the profit margin. CJT didn't fight for a combined pay rate because they didn't feel they needed it. OO is to blame, so is YV et al. and when they decided they wanted ZW's flying they refused to take responsability for their own stations, so UA had to get ZW to stay and handle several cities for them though ZW is no longer flying UAX routes. On top of this the management at the "new" UAX is content to comply with the idea that ZW employees should not get "freebies" on their carriers. This isn't just about what has been done to the pilots because the Air Crews are the least effected group in all of ZW, PSA's are loosing jobs right and left thanks to the decision to rebid the flying. Also as a note before UA put out the RFP they were being pressured by the other express carriers to be allowed access to the longer haul routes ZW was flying. Are the pilots at fault? maybe not, but a company thats predatory is no better than TWA under Ichan or the Texas Air group under Lorenzo.

 

[rtmcfi]

OO is to blame, so is YV et al. and when they decided they wanted ZW's flying they refused to take responsability for their own stations, so UA had to get ZW to stay and handle several cities for them though ZW is no longer flying UAX routes.

I have kind of a tough time with this. Who is doing the gound handling at ASE? ZW will be in ASE for quite some time (hopefully). Did ZW lose ASE ground ops because they refused to take responsibility? Any ground ops that ZW retains is at their desire. They make $ of of those stations. It is not as though it is a burden to ZW. It is a source of income.

On top of this the management at the "new" UAX is content to comply with the idea that ZW employees should not get "freebies" on their carriers.

This is one reason I hope ZW keeps ASE. I hope it leads to easy rides for all of you. However, with unlimited jumps on UAL soon to come, this is less of an issue.

Also as a note before UA put out the RFP they were being pressured by the other express carriers to be allowed access to the longer haul routes ZW was flying.

Perhaps they were being pressured. However, it was ZW's lack of an affirmed contract that gave UAL the opening they needed to start pouring the coals to ZW. Of course, it was not till some time down the road that you were made aware of the "affirmed" thing. All the while ATW was getting paid in full, while you were on a concesionary contract. Good luck with the grievance. (I mean that) The other express carriers had some long hauls of their own. SFO to Austin.....

Are the pilots at fault? maybe not, but a company thats predatory is no better than TWA under Ichan or the Texas Air group under Lorenzo

I have no problem with mgmt going to battle with other companies for business. If my mgmt outfoxes yours, good for them.(and me) If yours outsmarts mine, good for them.(and you). The problem arises when labor (us) provides them with he leverage to outwit their adversaries. If we get better leases, or tax breaks, and turn that into an advantage good for us. If you or I give up pay or QOL to give the advantage to our respective mgmt.......well, a prostitute is a prostitute no matter what street they work on.

I applaud ZW for breaking out from UAL. I sincerely hope it works. I would be interested to see the numbers with UAL, however. I am curious to know how much of a profit margin is enough. I wonder how much more US airways is paying them than UAL. How much of a profit margin is worth all those PSA jobs? How much justifies making your pilots all commute? Obviously with the closing of ATW, HQ is feeling some pain as well. Best of luck to all you guys and gals. As for our combined 50 and 70 seat rates, all I can say is sorry. That was a mistake I hope we learn from.