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Awa/usairs Arbitration In !

  • Thread starter Thread starter AutoBus
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But he heard it from a guy who knows a guy who knows YOU. It must certainly be true and postworthy!

I love how going from the bottom of one list to the bottom of another is an "injustice" and unfair...only if they got to screw you out of 15 yrs of career progression by slotting and fencing unemployed pilots infront of you would it have been fair.
 
Hey man, Wellllll, still have the '65, the '94 got wrapped around a telephone pole, Long story.....LOL. Anyways looking at getting another one here possibly, BUT have a son that's starting to throw hints as to what he wants in 2.5 years (he's almost 14) So I might be buying a Chevy sprint instead...hahah......If he ends up driving a car anywhere close to how he does a Jetski...

Yea keep him away form the HP for a while. So how long is your PSA lock?
 
Be more than happy to show you the door,as would a few others. Might want to take your buddy Trainer 8 along with you.


PHXFLYR:cool:


Hey PHX post up your P number so I know who you are. Or are you going to hide behind your screen name like coward?

You are such a tool you can't even understand a simple post. It was being claimed that our retirements were few and far between and I simple stated attrition has always been a big driver for the west. This statement is a positive for the west. Retirements, Attrition, and Growth always fueled the 7 year upgrades. Which part of that did you not understand?

I don't even know who trainor8 is.

Oh I see in your profile your a 737 Captain with a DHC-8 type.
I have a real good idea who you are now.
 
odell got put ahead of colello - thats f'in bullsh1t. east got the shaft big time.

tell me how the fvck does someone that got hired in 2005 get put ahead of someone with an 1986 DOH?

Because Odell, decided to go to work for America West. The 86 guy could have done the same but didn't. Why should the shaft extend between to totally seperate companies? US Air destroyed these guys years ago and they kept coming back...WHY????
 
I am in my office at home! :pimp:

Yes, the Shuttle it is. And I am thankful for that because after Nicolau News on 5/3, I'm glad I had a diaper on!!!

LOL. I never knew they wore diapers until that psycho astronaut chick wore one to make a long drive to confront her female rival. :nuts:
 
But he heard it from a guy who knows a guy who knows YOU. It must certainly be true and postworthy!

I love how going from the bottom of one list to the bottom of another is an "injustice" and unfair...only if they got to screw you out of 15 yrs of career progression by slotting and fencing unemployed pilots infront of you would it have been fair.


Umm. Hey POS... you DO realize that you have won.

In the big scheme of things, at the end of the day, seeing that the fat lady has sung, being that the cookie DID indeed crumble and you have all the chips it MIGHT be a little bigger of you to, well, let the East guys say what they will.

Saying things will never change the decision hganded down by Nicolau; by you or them.

Talking about the issue will help many East pilots cope with the loss they have just been given. As positive of an experience as this was for a West pilot, it was doubly as negative for an East guy. The emotion many feel can be greatly compared to a death of a loved one.

Flippant comments directed toward an individual on the East will no nothing to show dignity and professionalism on your part.

Walk in an Eastie's shoes for a bit. They are black, just like yours.

What is happening now could happen to ANY airline pilot these days. By empathizing with East pilots, you may be preparing yourself to things that could very well happen again in the future... only with the opposite outcome for you.

Aviation: The craziest business that I know.
 
Life isn’t fair. Nothing stays the same.

You are in the airline industry; your lot in life will change. It isn’t Mother Delta, American, Northwest, United, US Air or America West that it once was. This is a business. Businesses exist to make a profit. When they can’t make a profit, they seek a new model. We are labor and we are expendable. If you don’t like this, then quit and find another occupation. Don’t want to quit: then work to improve the system for your fellow man as best you can.

Figure out where you are in life as a responsible adult. Everyone needs a plan B. If you have all your eggs in one basket, you are nuts. ALPA (or your MEC) does not exist to hold your hand. ALPA exists to take care of ALPA which works to take care of the masses as best it can. Unions are run by the top 20% of pilots at every airline. These top 20% want to take care of themselves first and you second. That isn’t a bad thing; it is a seniority based system. If you are in the bottom 1/4 at any airline you are hoping and praying to move up to the top 1/4 so you can have other guys fly the crap you don’t want. We are just as professional as doctors and lawyers, we eat our young. The young hope to survive for better days tomorrow. As a baby boomer, one of things we keep saying about Gen X, Y, Z, is that they “whine” when life doesn’t go there way, it is always someone else’s fault. A responsible adult accepts that you make a plan, …and if it doesn’t work out, you find a new plan. But don’t “whine” about how the system screwed you. Stand up and be a Man and take responsibility for the road you traveled in life. Your life will fork left and right and you need to be ready to change – don’t blame the speed bumps on somebody else. But nobody has a right to forecast what might have been in the airline world. Here today and gone tomorrow.

The thing that burns the AWA guys the most is the strong sense of “entitlement” exhibited by the East guys. We were at our airline, jumping through the same hoops, and just trying to keep our career going. Then the merger comes along. Again, 9 out of 10 AWA pilots wish it never happened, but it is here, and the arbitration award is out. The US Air MEC negotiated the best they could, had numerous opportunities to mediate, but hung the hat on DOH. DOH was not used by the arbitrator. It isn’t our group’s fault.

What next? Cry over spilt milk, burn the house down, ridiculous. How about, we cinch up our belt and work to get the best contract possible and try to become the best airline in the industry. If you are still furloughed, we will work to get your back as soon as possible. Don’t want to come back, that is your choice. There are thousands of other pilots waiting for a chance to work at the New US Airways. There is always a new pilot that wants your job. So as an AWA pilot, I’ll see you in the picket line in PHX on May 8/24, in PHL on May 15/25, in CLT on May 21, in LAX on May 22, in DCA on May 23, or in LAS on May 26th, to do our part in making it better for ourselves and the guys following behind us. If you don’t want to come, ok, but I’ll be in one of the lines trying to get the East pilots to our contract/work rules as quick as possible and to give every furloughee a chance to get back to work as soon as possible. The rest is up to you.
 
I would like to hear from a west pilot how they think the following is fair. I will not use names, but if you look at the award, you can see them. To identify the pilots, I will use the "new" seniority number.

Pilot #4768 was the junior active pilot from the East. He was hired 7/18/1988. The pilot right below him is the only West pilot junior to him (Save Dave). And of course all the pilots that were furloughed are below both of them.

Pilot #4768 has almost 19 years of active service. He was NEVER furloughed. Flew the line the entire time. Now lets look at the first West pilot now senior to him. That would be pilot #4765, with a hire date of 4/4/2005. When the merger was announced, this pilot had 2 MONTHS of service. Why shoud he go above a 19 YEAR pilot that was never furloughed?
 
I would like to hear from a west pilot how they think the following is fair. I will not use names, but if you look at the award, you can see them. To identify the pilots, I will use the "new" seniority number.

Pilot #4768 was the junior active pilot from the East. He was hired 7/18/1988. The pilot right below him is the only West pilot junior to him (Save Dave). And of course all the pilots that were furloughed are below both of them.

Pilot #4768 has almost 19 years of active service. He was NEVER furloughed. Flew the line the entire time. Now lets look at the first West pilot now senior to him. That would be pilot #4765, with a hire date of 4/4/2005. When the merger was announced, this pilot had 2 MONTHS of service. Why shoud he go above a 19 YEAR pilot that was never furloughed?



Because even though that pilot had 19 years of service he was still number two from the bottom of the list. Length of service does not matter according to alpoa merger policy. Now can we move on and get a good contract!
 
I would like to hear from a west pilot how they think the following is fair. I will not use names, but if you look at the award, you can see them. To identify the pilots, I will use the "new" seniority number.

Pilot #4768 was the junior active pilot from the East. He was hired 7/18/1988. The pilot right below him is the only West pilot junior to him (Save Dave). And of course all the pilots that were furloughed are below both of them.

Pilot #4768 has almost 19 years of active service. He was NEVER furloughed. Flew the line the entire time. Now lets look at the first West pilot now senior to him. That would be pilot #4765, with a hire date of 4/4/2005. When the merger was announced, this pilot had 2 MONTHS of service. Why shoud he go above a 19 YEAR pilot that was never furloughed?

I will not get involved in debating what is fair or not fair. The simple fact is the ALPA merger policy does not have DOH in it. This award went based on your pre merger relative seniority. I have always stated I will accept what the arbitrator awards. It all depends your perspective, but I can assure both sides that the final solution will not be determined on this forum. Yes I can understand the East frustration being the award came in nothing like the DOH that was being promoted by their merger committee. The award was not a big surprise out west. Relative pre merger seniority was the basis of the merger committee. I can assure you if it came back date of hire the west would be mad.
The biggest battle is with the company, but it appears all this east west infighting is causing use to loose sight of the real enemy.
 
You are an idiot. Enjoy the soup kitchen line. The difference from west to east is that we are a TEAM (and profitable before saving your a$$). I see that in PHL every time I fly into there. Your ridiculous operation embarrasses me and our airline you moron. Did I mention that you are an idiot? Our proposal was fair, your's was insane. The arbitrator had to rule for one or another.
 
Man, that is one tough navy dude!

I'd respond, but Carb Heat hurt my feelings earlier. I'm still licking my wounds.
 
But it is ok for "Save Dave" to be the VERY LAST pilot on the West list, but now has 1,750 pilots below him?

why don't we add all the pilots that work at any airways express carrier to that # because they have the same effect on his bidding position / job security which is jack sh_t. 1,750 people on furlough below him are of less value to him than the couple of pages of paper their names appear on - at least he can burn the paper for warmth.
 
But it is ok for "Save Dave" to be the VERY LAST pilot on the West list, but now has 1,750 pilots below him?

How does he have 1750 pilots behind him? They are furloughed and provide no benefit to him. They brought nothing to the table. How hard is that to understand. I feel bad that usairways was doing so poorly but the fact of the matter is furloughed means no job, Active, as dave odell was, means he has something to offer. An actual seat as a 737 fo. These 1750 pilots mean nothing until they return.
 

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