AWA/US Air --integration plan

[MCDU]

America West pilots might not like the fact that they are merging with US Airways, but I remember them trooling to merge with United prior to 9/11.
Anyway, the way I see it, if we had to merge , I would like to merge with an
Airline that has a lots of retirements and brings jobs to the equation. The Cactus guys need to see beyond the next few years. If the age 60 thing does not come to fruit, I believe there will be lots of opportunities for the pilots in the desert to move to greener pastures if they wanted very quickly, otherwise you will have to wait a few years more.
Like I said, the worst is merging with an airline, that has very few retirements. Just look at how many CAL has had to hire due to retirements.

(Funny, that US Air furloughed about exactly the amount of pilots that America West has on its property.)

Good luck to both sides and listen to PHXFLYER, he is right on about the integration.

Peace

Marty

 

[Green]

Thanks for setting us straight MCDU (sarcasm intended).

I don't think America West pilots care what you think we "need to do." We'll get along fine without you're advice thanks.....

 

[Draginass]

Seems like the ones that always pushing the "let's be reasonable" PR spin are the ones that are positioned the weakest.

 

[Doug Parker]

Seems like the ones that always pushing the "let's be reasonable" PR spin are the ones that are positioned the weakest.

That's pretty funny Asswipe......................

Stay tuned for 1st qtr 07 - the numbers won't lie






.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Arrow Air in miami. Actually 727's and Dc-8s 92-99. Was 2 weeks from class for capt upgrade when US called to offer me the "chance of a lifetime" Chance is right....almost as good as the chance with the lottery....LOL

Kinda makes you wish you had a crystal ball and could peek into the future when offers like that come along,doesn't it? I flew DC-8's with ATI. Neat ol' airplane.
PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

That's pretty funny Asswipe......................

Stay tuned for 1st qtr 07 - the numbers won't lie






.

Don't be so sure. 1st qtr 06 to 1st qtr 07 is a lifetime in "airline years". Alot can happen between now and then.......


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Regardless of the solution, you better be prepared for many years of ill will, that's how mergers go. A solution that simultaneously spreads the pain while sticking somewhat closely to current contracts (like the reinstatement clause in Filling Of Vacancies) may mitigate some of that.

Also, the future may well hold circumstances that affect different seniority levels differently and screwing one group now may allow that group eat it's cold revenge later, when their support may be crucial. The unity ship for the FA's has sailed due to strict adhearance to DOH. They will be living with the screwing of the AWA people for years.

Thanks for the heads up. I figured this place once it's pieced together will never be mistaken for "the happiest place on earth". But then again, happy employees was never USAir's strong suit, if I remember from my days as a USAir Express pilot.(So much for Parker's "cultural" concerns. ) As for the FA intergration going strictly date of hire,rest assured, should that prevail and a USAir Flt Attendant winds up flying with an all-AWA cockpit crew,we have enough crazies at our shop that will be more than happy to go out of there way to make their trip a living hell.


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

The fact that any union event resulted in fisticuffs is a sad commentary on this industry in general and this merged carrier in particular.



By the way, I'm on your side in the integration. I hope you make Captain before the integration is complete because I don't think it's going to go well for the Cactus guys.

Thanks. I hope so,too. But with the recently announced reduction bid on the "west" certificate,that's starting to look more and more doubtful. Just curious ,what makes you think it won't go well for the "Cactus Guys" ? By the way ,I agree with you 100% regarding the fight. Sad...real sad.


PHXFLYR

 

[Lampshade]

Thanks. I hope so,too. But with the recently announced reduction bid on the "west" certificate,that's starting to look more and more doubtful. Just curious ,what makes you think it won't go well for the "Cactus Guys" ? By the way ,I agree with you 100% regarding the fight. Sad...real sad.


PHXFLYR

I guess that answers the question about recalls to the west then? Will the west wither on the vine until intergration? 757 and emb's all going to the east. Good times...good times.

 

[gutshotdraw]

PHX,

I have many friends at Cacti and I just flew with a (now retired) former AWA ALPA poo-bah and he agreed with me that integration would probably swing eastward (regrettably). I've always been a "percentage position of your current seniority list" guy when it comes to integration. I think it's the only fair way to go.

BTW, if you are a former ATI guy, you probably know my old canyon dog buddy from Nashville: KT. Great dude and a good friend. And if you're on the Bus at Cacti, tell Chadder Cheese "Boat Drinks" from me the next time you fly with him.

And, remember, "It's 5 o'clock somewhere".

 

[vetrider]

I guess that answers the question about recalls to the west then? Will the west wither on the vine until intergration? 757 and emb's all going to the east. Good times...good times.

Maybe, maybe not so much. The latest bid just moves stuff around due to 37s that have left. Its a displacement/vacancy bid, the overall number of captains and fos will remain the same.

 

[Green]

Vetrider,

Why are you making excuses for the company? We are getting screwed out of all additional/growth flying.

 

[vetrider]

Vetrider,

Why are you making excuses for the company? We are getting screwed out of all additional/growth flying.

If I sound like I am making excuses for the company it is unintentional, I'm getting screwed right along with you, and I gotta admit i'm not all that pleased. I simply was trying to clarify what the bid was, a post or two back it was called reduction, which I thought could imply downgrades and furloughs, which it does not. I was simply trying to clarify that.

 

[MCDU]

The guys that are getting screwed are the 1989 ALPA pilots that were furloughed to make this merger happen. Not one America West pilot is furloughed. So I would say the guys who got screwed are def. on the East. Where were you in 1989?

Marty

 

[TWA Dude]

See why I avoid these kind of "discussions"? We ALL deserve more and we ALL have been screwed at one time or another. ALPA merger policy makes no mention of making pilots whole from past screwings. It's about the future, not the past.

 

[PHXFLYR]

The guys that are getting screwed are the 1989 ALPA pilots that were furloughed to make this merger happen. Not one America West pilot is furloughed. So I would say the guys who got screwed are def. on the East. Where were you in 1989?

Marty

Busy holding a gun to that poor 1989 ALPA pilot's head, forcing him to fill out that USAir application against his will. Give it a rest ,Marty...it's getting old.

PHXFLYR

 

[vetrider]

The guys that are getting screwed are the 1989 ALPA pilots that were furloughed to make this merger happen. Not one America West pilot is furloughed. So I would say the guys who got screwed are def. on the East. Where were you in 1989?

Marty

They weren't furloughed to make this merger happen, they were furloughed because US was trying to survive, as was every other airline back then. The merger wasn't anywhere near being on the radar when the furloughs occured.

The fact that US decided a merger was the best option for its survival several years after the furloughs took place is beyond the control of any pilot on either side.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Strict DOH for folks not furloughed would be unfair. A mix is in order. Those Captain now should stay Captain. Furloughed folks will have to take whats left. But how about the big picture? USAir guys will be retiring over 50% over 5-10 years. What if you America West folks had merged with Delta. They have no retirements for 5 years. I think you should count your blessings.

Unfortunately, it sounds like Parker has done a number on the America West guys since he is not offering any pay protection for displaced Captains or delayed upgrades as a result of this merger. He should and I blame him for the integration mess (But he does seem to be profiting handsomely from it in stock options).

That said, saying no one held a gun to the USAir folks heads filling out the app is like saying no one held a gun to the America West folks heads forcing them to merge with USAir. No one forced either employee group to do what they did. So what?

And saying America West's growth was interrupted by the merger is another red herring. THAT WAS PARKER'S PLAN. He wanted to combine the two and force some shrinkage. Not the employees fault, but also not forced onto America West by the "evil" USAir folks.

America West may have "saved" USAir but America West figured they had a better chance of survival by mergering. You saved each other. Neither labor group is superior or should get special favors. You can argue about that, but what is the point?

Management has put both of you on the same playground. Are you going to get along or beat on each other?? Honestly, I think its great for my USAir and America West buds that they have a brighter future now. How do you guys feel about your future? Better or Worse than before the merger?


P.S. What is with the Frankenstein plane with USAir fuselage paint and America West Tail and wing tip paint? It freaks me out.

 

[joevollers]

FBJ----
Glad to see you came around.....

 

[Swaayze]

I thought the FA Union's policy was pretty cut and dried for DOH? If that's true, why shouldn't it go DOH for them? And if it does, why would anyone be justified in creating a living hell for a coworker?

 

[PHXFLYR]

I thought the FA Union's policy was pretty cut and dried for DOH? If that's true, why shouldn't it go DOH for them? And if it does, why would anyone be justified in creating a living hell for a coworker?

Who knows? Maybe it has something to do with pushing someone out the door who has been with the company since its very first day?

PHXFLYR

 

[Spectre]

1. DOH no longer in the ALPA merger policy
2. Get real, your career expectations if you had half a brain were liquidation
in about six months
3. Look at the court papers, we aquired you
4. Staple and pull my gear b!tch

...And AWA had how much of their own money to acquire USAir? So much money they needed that goverment loan for bailout after 9/11? AWA used borrowed funds for the merger. So, IMO, it should be DOH for the merge.

 

[Deadalus]

Duh

If I go the bank and borrow money to "aquire" a home I'm still "aquiring" it moron.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

...And AWA had how much of their own money to acquire USAir? So much money they needed that goverment loan for bailout after 9/11? AWA used borrowed funds for the merger. So, IMO, it should be DOH for the merge.

This is the stupidest arguement yet.

 

[PHXFLYR]

PHX,

I have many friends at Cacti and I just flew with a (now retired) former AWA ALPA poo-bah and he agreed with me that integration would probably swing eastward (regrettably). I've always been a "percentage position of your current seniority list" guy when it comes to integration. I think it's the only fair way to go.

BTW, if you are a former ATI guy, you probably know my old canyon dog buddy from Nashville: KT. Great dude and a good friend. And if you're on the Bus at Cacti, tell Chadder Cheese "Boat Drinks" from me the next time you fly with him.

And, remember, "It's 5 o'clock somewhere".

If KT's first name is Keith,then I think I do. As a matter of fact,if it is who I think it is,we had a precautionary engine shut down due to low oil pressure going into IAH one morning. Not too sure who Cheddar Cheese is,though.
Re:"It's 5 o'clock somewhere" Yes it is!!:beer:



PHXFLYR

 

[gutshotdraw]

If KT's first name is Keith,then I think I do. As a matter of fact,if it is who I think it is,we had a precautionary engine shut down due to low oil pressure going into IAH one morning. :beer:

PHXFLYR

Ding!

 

[A350]

PHXFLYR:

If you were "qualified" enough to fly for a major in 1989, and you had job offers in hand for USAir and AWA, which company would you have went to work for?

Everyone takes a chance when they sign on with an airline, seniority being what it is in the business. But saying somehow that AWA was the "place to be" when this merger occurred because they hired a few pilots and hadn't furloughed 10 years into their seniority list is being less than truthful.

A350

 

[PHXFLYR]

PHXFLYR:

If you were "qualified" enough to fly for a major in 1989, and you had job offers in hand for USAir and AWA, which company would you have went to work for?

Everyone takes a chance when they sign on with an airline, seniority being what it is in the business. But saying somehow that AWA was the "place to be" when this merger occurred because they hired a few pilots and hadn't furloughed 10 years into their seniority list is being less than truthful.

A350

I agree with most of what you say in your post above,especially the part about taking a chance. But can you show me where I ever said AWA was the "place to be"? I think you might be mixing me up with someone else. As far as your question as to who would I choose if I were "qualified" to fly for a major back in 1989 (which by the way, I was);what's my 3rd choice? Neither company impressed me very much back then. As a matter of fact,they still don't


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Ding!

Well,I'll be.......small world,isn't it? Don't know if he remembers me or not. We only flew one trip together. But if you see him send him my regards. I was his F/O on that IAH trip.


PHXFLYR

 

[Vastly Underemp]

What's wrong with:

Relative seniority...everyone stays in the seat they're in by seat and domicile percentage

5 year fences everywhere, attrition covered from your old company, that way the furloughed guys get a chance at coming back;

Relative integration...one from column A, two from column B, exercisable only due to base/seat openings after the fences go away;

no one gets a windfall, and very few FU's

mutual lateral trades, at the discretion of the pilots

Let the flinging begin