Awa Us A350?

[Boeingman]

Can you explain this unable to go into toga / landing mode< 100 feet?
Just curious.

Also, didn't NWA have an Airbus some years back that wouldn't go into the "landing mode" in LAX and required an extensive discussion with Airbus to "trick" the airplane? Or is this one of those fairy tales floating around?

 

[321 busdriver]

Certainly. The Airbus has numerous "protections" that pertain to flight ( flight control laws) that will not allow the aircraft to be rolled with excessive bank, over stressed loads, high angle of attack, or oversped. It also has certain autothrust features that add an extra level of safety when used properly. One of these is called alpha floor which is a protection available from lift off to 100' RA on approach. If the airplane approaches a stall, the auto thrust commands toga ( takeoff/go around) thrust to prevent the stall. Below 100', you would obviously not want this protection or you could never land the aircraft. When these pilots performed the demonstration in Paris, they were given something above 100' as the floor for this performance. Not understanding the aircraft they went below this altitude and allowed the plane to get slower and slower, all the while waiting for the auto thrust to do its thing. When they finally realized that it wasn't going to, they attempted to manually go to toga thrust ( which would work just fine) and as the engines were spooling up, they impacted the trees. Again , not understanding the airplane and what it was designed to do and not do led to their demise. Hope this helps. I don't remember the NWA incident, so it is possible. However, most of the time I would have to say it was operator error. I remember many a time years ago that I would swear at the airplane, only to come to find out that it was me, not it. A longer learning curve, but an excellent, safe airplane.

Can you explain this unable to go into toga / landing mode< 100 feet?
Just curious.

Also, didn't NWA have an Airbus some years back that wouldn't go into the "landing mode" in LAX and required an extensive discussion with Airbus to "trick" the airplane? Or is this one of those fairy tales floating around?

 

[Marko Ramius]

I was the one who said that the A300/310 was a dead airframe along with the 767/757. I was just referring to their production futures as both Boeing and Airbus are heading in a different direction going forward. The A330/340/350 do share the same fuselage width as the A300, but that's about the only link they have to that aircraft. They have more in common with the A320 series, and even that difference has widened with the derivative versions and now the A380 technology that will find it's way into the A350. As for the accident, TOGA is always available if you push the thrust levers up. Waiting for ALPHA Floor is asinine. As far as the possible NW incident, I haven't heard about it, but couldn't you put the FADEC in unrated N1 mode and remove any possible problem?

 

[321 busdriver]

Agreed. But that's what they were waiting for. Right up to the time that the little birdies ran (flew) for cover.

I was the one who said that the A300/310 was a dead airframe along with the 767/757. I was just referring to their production futures as both Boeing and Airbus are heading in a different direction going forward. The A330/340/350 do share the same fuselage width as the A300, but that's about the only link they have to that aircraft. They have more in common with the A320 series, and even that difference has widened with the derivative versions and now the A380 technology that will find it's way into the A350. As for the accident, TOGA is always available if you push the thrust levers up. Waiting for ALPHA Floor is asinine. As far as the possible NW incident, I haven't heard about it, but couldn't you put the FADEC in unrated N1 mode and remove any possible problem?

 

[erjdude]

from what I remember of the NW incident the AC had lost both RA's. The AC did not "know" it was below 100' on each landining and went to toga in the flair. As stated above they simply turned off the autothrust and landed normaly.

 

[Tomct]

Was it not the airbus "CP" demonstrating the a320 to prospective buyers that day? And if it was, why would he not KNOW about or neglect to notice the "Alpha Floor" danger?

 

[Guppiedriver]

Well when that a-319,320 takes you into the trees, you will be thinking .......should have stayed with boeing!

This coming from a guy that drives a Brasilia and/or a Challenger.

I guess it's possible that he slept in a Holiday Inn Select last night.

 

[miles otoole]

..........

 

[miles otoole]

Well when that a-319,320 takes you into the trees, you will be thinking .......should have stayed with boeing!

Don't you mean the trees in Pittsburgh?

 

[I.P. Freley]

Don't you mean the trees in Pittsburgh?

DOH!!! Harsh, but... DOH!!!!!

 

[TheDonger]

Don't you mean the trees in Pittsburgh?

427 pretty much ended the US Airways/Boeing relationship.

 

[FR8mastr]

I beg to differ, Steven Wolf and his kickbacks from the Government subsidized, IE cheaper airbus ended the boeing relationship.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Well when that a-319,320 takes you into the trees, you will be thinking .......should have stayed with boeing!

Yeah and the 737 will go into a rudder hardover. How many folks have been killed by the "fine" rudder system on the 737?

 

[B6Busdriver]

Was it not the airbus "CP" demonstrating the a320 to prospective buyers that day? And if it was, why would he not KNOW about or neglect to notice the "Alpha Floor" danger?

Alpha Floor isn't dangerous. It's quite a good thing actually. Fortunately I've yet to find out how great it works....yet. The chief pilot had all of about 100 hours in the airplane at the time and the f/o even less. Keep digging though you're doing a great job.

 

[TheDonger]

I beg to differ, Steven Wolf and his kickbacks from the Government subsidized, IE cheaper airbus ended the boeing relationship.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The relationship ended before the Wolfman came to USAir.

 

[ivauir]

Yeah and the 737 will go into a rudder hardover. How many folks have been killed by the "fine" rudder system on the 737?

if there in one that this discussion needed it was another ignorant comment.

 

[321 busdriver]

It was several management type pilots, their wives and/ or friends , members of the press along with others. And you should know , or will with experience, that flying a desk for most of the year doesn't make you very sharp. Definitely the other way around.

Was it not the airbus "CP" demonstrating the a320 to prospective buyers that day? And if it was, why would he not KNOW about or neglect to notice the "Alpha Floor" danger?

 

[321 busdriver]

I have actually lost both ra's. before. The aircraft will go into direct law ( something they say will never happen when you're in school) but the autothrust is not affected. However, turning off the flight directors has to happen, or the aircraft will go after the last altitude set in the fcu, and will command toga thrust.

from what I remember of the NW incident the AC had lost both RA's. The AC did not "know" it was below 100' on each landining and went to toga in the flair. As stated above they simply turned off the autothrust and landed normaly.

 

[321 busdriver]

No, we don't. Try to keep up.

Don't you mean the trees in Pittsburgh?

 

[321 busdriver]

You're both partially correct. 427 did put a tremendous strain on the relationship with Boeing, as blame was thrown around. However, the huge Airbus order simply came down to dollars, and U would have gone with Boeing had the price been right. Each Airbus we received was millions below market price. That's partly why Airbus had no problem when we couldn't take delivery on most of the airplanes. They were more than happy to cancel the order and sell them for a better price elsewhere.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The relationship ended before the Wolfman came to USAir.