Aviation industry tries to undercut key change

[Flyer1015]

Simple math:

Let's say a Regional Airline Captain makes $65/hr and a First Officer makes $40/hour. Let's also say they are flying around in a 50 set RJ with an 80% load factor (40 passengers). On a 2hr flight if you charged each passenger an extra $4 you could raise the Captain's payrate to $105/hr and the First Officer's to $80/hr. That is less than the price of a latte'. Now as the aircraft gets bigger, the surcharge gets smaller.

Sorry Yip, but your doom and gloom scenario of properly compensating pilots does NOT add up.

LOL! I love it when a pilot does math to show how his salary can be proportionately increased with a fare increase of the people onboard.

It doesn't work that way, never has, never will.

Besides, don't forget that on that 80% 50-seat RJ load factor, you aren't even making any money to begin with.

 

[asayankee]

LOL! I love it when a pilot does math to show how his salary can be proportionately increased with a fare increase of the people onboard.

It doesn't work that way, never has, never will.

Besides, don't forget that on that 80% 50-seat RJ load factor, you aren't even making any money to begin with.

You may not make money on that 50-seat flight, but you have to offset that against profits on that full 767 which just flew those connecting passengers overseas. It's not as simple as just looking at the RJ segment. Large, expensive mainline aircraft are not cost efficient if they don't have the feed to fill the seats. Comparing 1 RJ segment to 1 mainline segment is not really a valid comparison.

 

[johnpeace]

You may not make money on that 50-seat flight, but you have to offset that against profits on that full 767 which just flew those connecting passengers overseas. It's not as simple as just looking at the RJ segment. Large, expensive mainline aircraft are not cost efficient if they don't have the feed to fill the seats. Comparing 1 RJ segment to 1 mainline segment is not really a valid comparison.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/record_profit_airline_workforce_job_employment_203443-1.html

Let's see here:
I see 50 seat RJs EVERYWHERE I go...they outnumber mainline planes by about 3:1.
DAL is about to post record 3Q profits.

I don't see DAL 'losing money' on 50 seat RJs...

 

[Skywest Pylot]

Then go for it, perhaps I am all wrong and the public will not will change any of their purchasing plans based upon the price of a ticket. Now if you think that pilot can be paid more without raising prices then that is for you to work out with your union and management. But remember there has to be a certain level of profitibility in order to have access to funds. It all boils down to economics. Best of luck. BTW I really do wish that you made $250K per year and your F/O $125K per year

So, you are saying that an extra $5 or $6 dollars is gonna keep someone from buying a ticket? Btw, I now work for Delta and make more money as an FO than I ever did as a Captain at SkyWest. I fly a 100 seat DC9 vs a 70-76 seat RJ at SkyWest.

 

[pilotyip]

So, you are saying that an extra $5 or $6 dollars is gonna keep someone from buying a ticket? Btw, I now work for Delta and make more money as an FO than I ever did as a Captain at SkyWest. I fly a 100 seat DC9 vs a 70-76 seat RJ at SkyWest.

They will change airlines for $5 or $6, if all airlines raise together, much like the fuel surcharge ticket pricing of 2008, less people will ride. It is really basic Adam Smith stuff

 

[ualdriver]

They will change airlines for $5 or $6, if all airlines raise together, much like the fuel surcharge ticket pricing of 2008, less people will ride. It is really basic Adam Smith stuff

More or less passengers may fly if ticket prices go up X dollars due to pilot pay raises- we'll see. However, from the pilot's perspective that shouldn't matter. I'm told by a certain persistent poster on this forum that there is a HUGE pilot shortage coming up in 2012**. So less people may fly, but there will be plenty of higher paying pilot jobs available in just a short 14 months! So it seems to me that we, as pilots, should be pushing for long overdue raises so that when thus wave of pilots arrive in 2012, they will be well paid.

**not that I agree with this as it is impossible to predict the future.

 

[doh]

Get back to the non-aviation chat where you belong. Who do you think owns and operates the airports?

Jesus Chr*st, you teabaggers would have us landing on dirt strips and living in anarchy if it would save you a nickel in taxes.

..l.. Aviation benefits even those who don't fly. For example, the stuff you buy was transported to/from an airport. Roads are paid for out of general tax revenues. Airports should be funded the same way. You read way too much into the post.

 

[pilotyip]

**not that I agree with this as it is impossible to predict the future.

This one of the most realistic posts I have ever seen on FI. However all that being said the 2012 hiring boom it a sound Heuristic Assumption or better know as a SWAG. If there were such a thing as pilot job commodities I would be buying them right now, kinda like oil futures when oil was selling at $20/brl. I believe the only thing that will raise pilot wages, besides employee job action, is turn over at an airline. This where 2-10 year employees leave their job for another one. That really gets an employers attention.

 

[DGdaPilot]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that ALPA genuinely believes that safety would be served better by being able to substitute some of the hours required for an ATP with relevant courses offered by ABBI accredited institutions?

Yes and I hope we succeed.

 

[rigger]

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/record_profit_airline_workforce_job_employment_203443-1.html

Let's see here:
I see 50 seat RJs EVERYWHERE I go...they outnumber mainline planes by about 3:1.
DAL is about to post record 3Q profits.

I don't see DAL 'losing money' on 50 seat RJs...

Problem is as Yip pointed out pages ago, the fares never hold and these profits are not on Fares They try to raise them and the customer goes elseware for the 5-6 buck diff!....Profits are on ALL that extra tacked on crap everyone hates (but pays) ATA just had an article out showing this and reduced flights( can you say less 50 seat flying) is where the airlines now are getting their profits Take this out and boom back to the god old days.....

 

[WayBack]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that ALPA genuinely believes that safety would be served better by being able to substitute some of the hours required for an ATP with relevant courses offered by ABBI accredited institutions?

What a joke.
What's their next plan, accepting Microsoft flight sim time as "actual"?

 

[Nevets]

What a joke.
What's their next plan, accepting Microsoft flight sim time as "actual"?

Why is it a joke?

I say again, has it ever occurred to anyone that ALPA genuinely believes that safety would be served better by being able to substitute some of the hours required for an ATP with relevant courses offered by ABBI accredited institutions?

 

[ualdriver]

Why is it a joke?

I say again, has it ever occurred to anyone that ALPA genuinely believes that safety would be served better by being able to substitute some of the hours required for an ATP with relevant courses offered by ABBI accredited institutions?

Have you seen that Family Guy where Stewie likes that girl on the playground, but every time he says anything to her, the only thing she retorts with is some variation of the word "Cookie?" because that's all she is intellectually capable of repeating no matter what Stewie says? That's what it is like debating Way Back. He is only capable of retorting with some variation of "ALPA sucks." Cute I guess, but not nearly as entertaining as Family Guy.

Anyway, maybe ALPA genuinely believes that, but I suspect that they're "not really" for this 800 hour thing. I suspect it is some sort of compromise as obviously ALPA isn't the only organization sitting at the big table.

P.S. Bonus points if someone can tell me what that little girl's name is....