Avantair thriving in this economic downturn...

[steelersrule74]

Hmm....

Steelersrule, Would you speculate that those top managers have contracts with Avantair? Take the COO Kevin Beitzel for example, he made $50,000 in bonuses last year. He must be an impressive manager who REALLY cares about the welfare of his company. Avantair obviously thinks highly of him.

his numbers did stick out to me, he must be a heck of a COO. again, i'm not going to trash the company or an individual who's not on FI to defend themselves (as far as we know) - but i think bonuses and stock options given to senior management during a time when the economy is in shambles and the crews at avantair are paid a wage that is not as competitive as other fracs is at a minimum in poor taste and may be a red flag as to how they value their employees.

they may really be that good and take that company to the promised land. on the other hand it may be that a select few enrich themselves from the sweat of others. hard to say how it will work out. i sincerely hope for the crews there it does. and while i'm not trying to turn this into a union/non-union post clearly the pilots have no say in the matter. to paraphrase something i've read here.

'it's gonna cost ya'........

 

[fischman]

on the other hand it may be that a select few enrich themselves from the sweat of others.
'it's gonna cost ya'........

That can't happen in today's times!?! It IS reminiscent of the pharohs building the pyramids though isn't it? :erm:

Be careful what you ask for.

 

[netjetwife]

Good analogy, Fisch. If my husband was an Avantair pilot I'd feel that his skill was being exploited when an FO's salary tops out considerably below what an executive's bonus was for the year and the Captains are way behind their industry peers. That's just sooo wrong! Yeah, you know top managers always have a generous contract-- while they take steps to keep the crews from having one. What hypocrisy! Sounds like the kinda place B19 would choose, doesn't it?

Steel, thanks for posting your research; I found it very informative. I agree that it looks like Avantair is being built on the backs of the pilots and their families. NJA folks are good at spotting that based on past experience. In 2004 we fought against a POSTA that offered a 5 yr PIC 69K. Our pilots were also underpaid while they helped to build the company and had they not stood up for themselves who knows how long that unfairness would have lasted.

For the sake of the Avantair pilots, and others in the industry who are trying to raise the bar, I hope those IOUs get paid soon and the Avantair pilots start getting paid like the professionals they are, but unless they stand together and insist on fair compensation I doubt things will change. The huge discrepancy speaks for itself and tells pilots exactly what value Avantair management places on their vital contribution to the success of the company. NJW

 

[HazMat]

The salaries for captains posted is incorrect. Remember before you Netjets folks pound your chest no one has been asked to take a voluntary leave or been furloughed here. There isn't even a sniff of it happening either . I like the fact that I can sleep at night without having to worry about having a job. Further examination would reveal that the salaries for top execs at Avantair falls well short of those at the other fracs. Also consider that most of it is paid in stock options. They are only valuable if the company does well and the stock goes up. I know the fact that Avantair is doing so well and the other fracs are struggling is going to make posts like this happen but lets be careful.

 

[netjetwife]

HM, thanks for letting us know the PIC salary is wrong; can you please give us the correct number? The FO pay was reported accurately then?

Pounding our chests... I don't see it that way. Try empathy and shared insight based on experience. I agree that job security is very important but so is fairness. The stock option issue sheds more light on the subject of pay but it does beg the question--Do the pilots also get stock options to help offset their low wages?

I hate the thought that Avantair might be doing better because the pilots there are working for wages so low that it allows Avantair to undercut the other fracs. It has always been my hope that frac pilots will work together to raise the bar across the industry, ensuring professional compensation and fair work rules for ALL ... rather than the opposite.

To me, the job description and responsibility level appears too similar between the fracs to justify a big discrepancy in pay and/or QOL. If there is a lot of difference between the fracs from a pilot perspective (duties, required hours, responsibilities, etc) I would appreciate an explanation so that I can learn more about the industry and better understand my family's place in it. Thanks guys! NJW

 

[glasspilot]

Do the pilots also get stock options to help offset their low wages?

Umm, I'm standing right here...I can hear you.

We're talking about my pay and you offer that comment? Whatever.

I think Avantair undercuts the other fracs because the Piaggio burns 85 gallons an hour in cruise compared to over 200 gallons in a hawker 800XP. Before ya'll get your panties in a twist I compared the XP because that's how big a plane you need to match our cabin. I know it's faster and longer range and it's pilots are cooler and all that...but for a guy who wants a 5'8" cabin he can burn 85 gal in our plane or 200+ in a hawker.

Maybe, just maybe the plane is why Avantair is undercuting the compitition and it's not my NJW offending salary.

 

[SCT]

NJW, with all due respect, have you ever looked into taking an online macro/ micro economic courses? Maybe an aviation business class? I just think alot of your assumptions about business, earnings, economy of scale, and cost structure, etc are very narrow minded versus real world.

Just wondering-

 

[steelersrule74]

my source for salaries was airlinepilotcentral. if those numbers are incorrect I'd appreciate someone posting the actual pay rates. Also, the links to Forbes indicating some mgt salaries show to me the vast majority of compensation is through salary and bonus, NOT stock options.

 

[brokeflyer]

Well hopefully avantair dont suffer the same fate as Pan Am and USAir through sh1tty management.

those are a good group of pilots over there, hopefully they dont get butt raped.

 

[AftCG182]

I hate the thought that Avantair might be doing better because the pilots there are working for wages so low that it allows Avantair to undercut the other fracs.

NJW, haven't we addressed this point already? To undercut the competition, you have to do the same thing for a cheaper rate. Comparing your Beechjets and (smaller) Citations to our Piaggios is not an apples to apples comparison. Try comparing it on a pound-for-pound basis. You guys just don't have anything that compares to our 12,100lb model of efficiency. Fuel burn? Same story...

Edit to add: And please don't try to stir up the union argument AGAIN. Considering the state of this industry (and the state of the economy as a whole) we're being compensated in a manner that's keeping our company sustainable while keeping us employed. No one is being taken advantage of over here, thank you very much.