Avantair pay cut vacay elimination

[G4dude]

G4dude, you have some good ideas about business that I agree with, but on this I disagree. Pilots need unions to provide a balance in the management/labor relationship. If there is not enough balance, the stronger side will abuse the weaker side. Unions provide some balance in that relationship and are therefore required. History has proven this many times and its not just about income. With this comes responsibility that no one side should abuse their position, but I don't want to get into a long conversation about that on the forum.

To answer your question, there will always be pilots who want to work for less. I haven't taken a poll but I would say these are the less qualified (or un-qualified for various reasons) pilots.

Why aren't more people complaining about how high management's salaries are?

Good post. I am saying that if pay is driven upward, more people will decide to become pilots, creating an oversupply, further bringing down pay unless the National Union can impose its iron will on all pilots and employers. By the way, do you know why regional pilots are so poorly paid? Because they are willing to fly for such a small amount of money. Do you know why? Because of the higher than marketplace pay of senior captains. The younger guys and gals are willing to work for peanuts to get a shot at such big money. The bigger the top money, the more people will chase it, creating an oversupply.

 

[gret]

Yes...and that too!

 

[CE750Driver]

You really must stop drinking and posting. I said I PREFER "at will" employment. I was forced to join the union because I wanted to stay at NetJets, and I am still happy here, but I wish it was like before, an "at will" relationship. NJI was run better, was more profitable, more flexible in rearranging schedules, and more personal in how the company related to the employees.

Hey ass clown. You said you are proud to work at will.

No prefer in there.

You really must spit your boyfriends junk out of you mouth and pay attention when you post.

 

[gret]

Hey ass clown. You said you are proud to work at will.

No prefer in there.

You really must spit your boyfriends junk out of you mouth and pay attention when you post.

and you point was...?

Good robust debate is great...but what does this add to the discussion?

 

[Jack Campbell]

Good post. I am saying that if pay is driven upward, more people will decide to become pilots, creating an oversupply, further bringing down pay unless the National Union can impose its iron will on all pilots and employers. By the way, do you know why regional pilots are so poorly paid? Because they are willing to fly for such a small amount of money. Do you know why? Because of the higher than marketplace pay of senior captains. The younger guys and gals are willing to work for peanuts to get a shot at such big money. The bigger the top money, the more people will chase it, creating an oversupply.

My perspective is that I fly because I really enjoy it. If the money wasn't there, I would do something else. Pilots have a unique skill-set and tremendous responsibilty, and should be compensated for that. But the problem is that some companies take advantage of our love of flying. All I'm saying is that unions have a place in our industry: to keep management relatively honest, to keep management from taking too much. Its not a union's job to take too much,either. We need to have reasonable people on both sides. The oversupply issue comes naturally because the job seems so attractive (yes, partly because of the pay at the airlines and top corporate jobs) and we like to do it.

 

[gunfyter]

Well said, Jack.

 

[G4dude]

My perspective is that I fly because I really enjoy it. If the money wasn't there, I would do something else. Pilots have a unique skill-set and tremendous responsibilty, and should be compensated for that. But the problem is that some companies take advantage of our love of flying. All I'm saying is that unions have a place in our industry: to keep management relatively honest, to keep management from taking too much. Its not a union's job to take too much,either. We need to have reasonable people on both sides. The oversupply issue comes naturally because the job seems so attractive (yes, partly because of the pay at the airlines and top corporate jobs) and we like to do it.

Good post. Here is a question, and I don't know the answer, so it is not a setup for some preordained point: Did the airlines have a pilot seniority before unions came along?

 

[fob727]

Pick up "Flying The Line".

 

[G4dude]

Pick up "Flying The Line".

Ok, thanks.

 

[nordo_2]

My perspective is that I fly because I really enjoy it. If the money wasn't there, I would do something else. Pilots have a unique skill-set and tremendous responsibilty, and should be compensated for that. But the problem is that some companies take advantage of our love of flying. All I'm saying is that unions have a place in our industry: to keep management relatively honest, to keep management from taking too much. Its not a union's job to take too much,either. We need to have reasonable people on both sides. The oversupply issue comes naturally because the job seems so attractive (yes, partly because of the pay at the airlines and top corporate jobs) and we like to do it.

The problem with aviation is, it’s filled with managers. Not leaders. There are very few Herb K.s in this business. NetJets has a perfect example of that with the current CEO, J.H.. He is there to care take, and manage. He is no leader. Unlike most of the pilots, he will not finish his career at NetJets. He has no vested interest in the long term of this company.