Automation: Boeing vs. Airbus

[The_Russian]

For those of you who have flown both, how would you compare the automation in both to each other with respect to pilot input abilty? For further clarification: What did you prefer, in-the-loop or out-of-the-loop automation systems?

What would you change in either aircraft to make it more "user-friendly" or safer to use?

and,

How do you feel this will affect future pilot training and overall ability?

 

[lineflyer1]

For those of you who have flown both, how would you compare the automation in both to each other with respect to pilot input abilty? For further clarification: What did you prefer, in-the-loop or out-of-the-loop automation systems?

What would you change in either aircraft to make it more "user-friendly" or safer to use?

and,

How do you feel this will affect future pilot training and overall ability?

I have only flown the Boeing 737 and it has too much automation!

 

[PreContact]

Boeing's Got It Right

Love the 757! Flies great hands-on, hands-off~!

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Fifi is the laziest autopilot ever... which is fine because I'm the laziest pilot ever.

I love Fifi even though she calls me a retard just before the end of every flight.

 

[boxjockey]

At CX most guys who fly the airbus seem to like it, even though most say it takes some time to get your head around the computers. I guess it can also be quite easy to get wrapped up in checklist-land. The -400 is really easy, as it is about as automated as a CoffeeMate 2000.

box

 

[BiffF15]

I flown both the A320 and the 757 / 767. The Bus is the safest plane I have ever flown hands down. It's automation isn't perfect but is better than the 75-76 however it takes longer to become comfortable with.
Take the above comparison with a grain of salt as the technology spread between them as it's a bit of apples and oranges due to the time between airframe launches and fly by wire.

 

[GogglesPisano]

The A320 series automation takes a little getting used to but it hand flies like any other airplane -- although with a stick and with the added comfort of having neutral static stability when control pressure is released.

The systems automation is hands down superior to anything else I've ever flown -- although you are not as "in the loop" with what's going on behind you as you are in an older airplane.

The 737-800 I just checked out in hand-flies the best. The MD11 flies the worst and has the slowest FMS imaginable -- but that's a whole other thread.

The 737 vs A320 statistics are a wash ... http://www.airdisaster.com/statistics/

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

design philosophy

The main difference between Airbus and Boeing is the design philosophy. In a nutshell, the pilot has ultimate control in a Boeing whereas the plane retains ultimate control on a bus.

 

[sat74]

The MD11 flies the worst and has the slowest FMS imaginable -- but that's a whole other thread.

Yeah, I remember back in the day that my Atari and Commodore 64 ran faster than the MD11 POS FMS!!! Watching that thing go blank for eons while it calculates blows my mind!

 

[XShuttle]

I have several thousand hours in both the A320/A319 and B737-300/500. The Guppy has much better automation. The A320 won't even start a VNAV descent on it's own. The Boeing hand flies much better and the Guppy is much better in gusty winds. That said the A320 has a much more comfortable cockpit and the stick is great.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Yeah, I remember back in the day that my Atari and Commodore 64 ran faster than the MD11 POS FMS!!! Watching that thing go blank for eons while it calculates blows my mind!

Perfect for a long-haul over the ocean. It's when ATL, JFK, ORD ... change runways/STAR's at the last minute that things get interesting. :smash:

 

[oldxfr8dog]

The main difference between Airbus and Boeing is the design philosophy. In a nutshell, the pilot has ultimate control in a Boeing whereas the plane retains ultimate control on a bus.

Well, if you mean a Boeing guy has the authority to over "G" the airframe or bank more than 60 degrees, OK. Although, if the unusual attitude in the Bus is due to an "upset", full control authority is available.
The only time I have used more than 60 degrees of bank in a Boeing, was doing the "Loop" out of LA at night!
(Mr. FAA, that was a JOKE)!!!

 

[enigma]

The A320 won't even start a VNAV descent on it's own.

Yea, what's up with that? The Bus is a weird mix of "you can't do that because the engineer that designed it is smarter than you" and "why did you forget to start down"? It helps me do things I do well for myself like keeping the greasy side down, and doesn't help much in areas in which I need help, like starting down at the end of a long redeye. The UNS1's I flew years ago in corporate aircraft would at least give you a "top of descent" alert.

 

[Dizel8]

The UNS1's I flew years ago in corporate aircraft would at least give you a "top of descent" alert.

As does the bus, although it is not audible, I suppose you can program the "other guy" to yell at you

I have to laugh though, most people think the AB is too automated, yet the very same wants the a/c to initiate VNAV by itself.

It always comes down to the Boeing lovers wanting ultimate control stalling, overbanking etc and AB drivers defending the hard limits in the a/c. As someone else has already pointed out, the safety statistics are about the same for both types, so I guess it comes down to what one got used to!

 

[Old School 737]

What is the lowest RNP approach the bus can do?

 

[airbaker]

Yea, what's up with that? The Bus is a weird mix of "you can't do that because the engineer that designed it is smarter than you" and "why did you forget to start down"? It helps me do things I do well for myself like keeping the greasy side down, and doesn't help much in areas in which I need help, like starting down at the end of a long redeye. The UNS1's I flew years ago in corporate aircraft would at least give you a "top of descent" alert.

Airbus' version of a TOD alert is a little more cryptic; you'll just get a small "more drag" annunciator on the PFD and MCDU.

FWIW I much prefer the Boeing box (Honeywell) with it's logical programming inputs, but Airbus' automation

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Airbus' version of a TOD alert is a little more cryptic; you'll just get a small "more drag" annunciator on the PFD and MCDU.

FWIW I much prefer the Boeing box (Honeywell) with it's logical programming inputs, but Airbus' automation

The little red donut popping up where the GS scale goes ain't enough for you? Me neither!

I really like how you have the winds in, start down right on schedule for a multi step arrival like LGA and about a third of the way down all the constraints turn amber. Thanks Fifi, I love you too!

Agreed on the MCDU syntax. When I went to the G450 I kept trying to make lateral and vertical revisions to the flight plan. All it would do was drop to the scratch pad and cause the sim instructor to swat me with his paperwork.

 

[propjob27]

My opinion:

Flown 737 (300,500,700,800,900), 757 (200,300), and A300/A310

The automation in the 737-500 was better than that in the A300/310. That ought to tell you something.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

Can anyone comment on the 777 vs the A330? I know they are different beasts but they both have fly by wire.

 

[Marko Ramius]

My opinion:

Flown 737 (300,500,700,800,900), 757 (200,300), and A300/A310

The automation in the 737-500 was better than that in the A300/310. That ought to tell you something.

Why? The A300 is a 70's design that was last updated in the early 80's, the 737-500 was launched in 87 and entered service in 1990.