Attention UAL yes voters!

[eaglesview]

ALL of you need to get over it, it is what it is. The vote is over we need to stand as one group and fly to the letter of the contract.
- DO NOT WAIVE ANYTHING!
- Do not do favors.
- JM'd ? You are fatigued.
- Fly by the book, no more, no less.
- Know the contract
We can get more done as 12000 strong and no TRO. Smallsac LOVES this bickering. Both sides has their ****************************** bags and most are on this thread. I was a NO but I got over it by noon. We need to unite and set a precedent of flying to the letter of the contract. I'm stepping off my soap box now. Continue with the childish banter.

1000% correct.

 

[Bringupthebird]

PBS honors seniority unless by doing so makes a junior pilot illegal. It's not the boogeyman you paint.

 

[SimHo]

PBS honors seniority unless by doing so makes a junior pilot illegal. It's not the boogeyman you paint.

BULLS#!T What rock have you been living under. It never has and never will honor seniority.

 

[Bringupthebird]

BULLS#!T What rock have you been living under. It never has and never will honor seniority.

I've only worked under it for 10 years,that's all. How long have you been using it?

 

[jbDC9]

I've only worked under it for 10 years,that's all. How long have you been using it?

At what airline? Not CAL, we haven't been using PBS for 10 years. If you've not been using the CAL PBS system for the last 10 years, how can you comment on it?

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Some terms you might want to familiarize yourself with:

1.Seniority within feasibility

2.Fly Now, Grieve Later

3.Right-size equipment to market

Enjoy the next 8 years!

Completely ignorant. The reason our PBS sucked during contract 02 had nothing to do with our PBS program. It had everything to so with no work rules, no rule set for the program to follow. Our PBS program is superior to what UAL currently uses. Their work rules and rule set far exceeded ours. May be you can study the contract now that it passed. No fly now and grieve later. No Its called "order to fly", learn the contract. Or you can just continue with your ignorance doesn't matter to me. Maybe you might want to contact EAP for your anger management issues!

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

PBS honors seniority unless by doing so makes a junior pilot illegal. It's not the boogeyman you paint.

You obviously do not fly under CAL's PBS-you know, the version we will all be using? It most certainly does NOT honor seniority unless you are in the top 5%.

Not all PBS systems are created equal-as you are sure to find out soon if you are LUAL. In fact, you just helped the original poster make his point.

 

[Bringupthebird]

AWA has had PBS in their contact since 95 but it wasn't turned on until 99/00 or thereabouts. PBS has to crank out a legal solution to the bid and in order to do so seniority may very occasionally be sacrificed so that it can prvide that solution. How occasionally is a function of the quality of the contract.

 

[Flopgut]

AWA has had PBS in their contact since 95 but it wasn't turned on until 99/00 or thereabouts. PBS has to crank out a legal solution to the bid and in order to do so seniority may very occasionally be sacrificed so that it can prvide that solution. How occasionally is a function of the quality of the contract.

You are not helping at all. Not in the least. Please excuse yourself...

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

Completely ignorant. The reason our PBS sucked during contract 02 had nothing to do with our PBS program. It had everything to so with no work rules, no rule set for the program to follow. Our PBS program is superior to what UAL currently uses. Their work rules and rule set far exceeded ours. May be you can study the contract now that it passed. No fly now and grieve later. No Its called "order to fly", learn the contract. Or you can just continue with your ignorance doesn't matter to me. Maybe you might want to contact EAP for your anger management issues!

I did read the contract, cover to cover. I had a list of about 30 questions to ask at the roadshow, but could only ask two. Honestly, I hope everything you and our union says about the contract turns out to be true, and all of the reasons the no voters voted no turn out to be false. If that is the case then I agree that the contract will be a great improvement over POS '02, even with the lingering bad taste in my mouth from being sold out on retro (no where near the pay differential between us and DAL for B-scale pilots) and 757 rates that do not even match their 2015 rates in 2017.

 

[SimHo]

I've only worked under it for 10 years,that's all. How long have you been using it?

I’ve been operating under this POS PBS as long as you have. If you have been here 10 years and think this PBS system honors seniority you are obviously a senior FO on the 737. Maybe you should grow a pair and upgrade or go to a bigger airplane. Then you will learn how PBS really works!!

 

[Jetjockey]

PBS is a very generic term. So many variables. Vendor, mods within the vendor. Specifications by the customer. Contract work rules and staffing are huge determining factors. To say you have worked under PBS is not bad is like saying I've tasted the water.....it isn't bad. Which well are you drinking from?

 

[Continental]

Completely ignorant. The reason our PBS sucked during contract 02 had nothing to do with our PBS program. It had everything to so with no work rules, no rule set for the program to follow. Our PBS program is superior to what UAL currently uses. Their work rules and rule set far exceeded ours. May be you can study the contract now that it passed. No fly now and grieve later. No Its called "order to fly", learn the contract. Or you can just continue with your ignorance doesn't matter to me. Maybe you might want to contact EAP for your anger management issues!

Hey Jayson how about you resign, and start working under said contract seeing how you supported it. Say goodbye to your family (not that they want to see a sellout anyway) because it isn't going to get better. f you! YES F you! Hope you get everything coming ten fold.

 

[eaglesview]

Hey Jayson how about you resign, and start working under said contract seeing how you supported it. Say goodbye to your family (not that they want to see a sellout anyway) because it isn't going to get better. f you! YES F you! Hope you get everything coming ten fold.

Wow, this guy flies our families in airliners???? Can you say anger management?

 

[doh]

Wow, this guy flies our families in airliners???? Can you say anger management?

A little venting is good for the soul.

 

[tomgoodman]

A little venting is good for the soul.

That seems reasonable, since pressure relief valves do prevent boiler explosions.
Some academic studies, however, indicate that humans behave differently:

http://illinois.edu/lb/files/2009/03/26/9293.pdf

Summary sentences from abstract:
"Doing nothing at all was more effective than venting anger. These results directly contradict catharsis theory."

 

[Flopgut]

I beleive the management rights language that was in the old CAL contract (the language that is now gone) was tied to Texas law and were an equal part of the reason that when lorenzo got a hold of CAL, he moved them out of California. (not just right to work/hire replacement workers. Something more) This CAL mgt team has zero experience running an airline apart from those rights.

We need to:

learn our new agreement and fly it to the letter

Try to get thru SLI quickly. New list comes out, don't look at the old one ever again

Get rid of ALPA

What jeff will be doing:

Schemeing another strategic bk. Somehow we need to attack that strategy.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Schemeing another strategic bk. Somehow we need to attack that strategy.

10,000 letters of resignation will fully restore control back to the pilots, RLA cannot prevent quitting, when you all recognize that smallsack et al have far more to lose than you do, you will prevail. How many millions does his golden parachute contain? ALPA isn't your problem, it sits in the seat next to you, 67% have the spinal consistency of warm jello. Want a preview of your "new" union, check the Cactus result.

 

[eaglesview]

I beleive the management rights language that was in the old CAL contract (the language that is now gone) was tied to Texas law and were an equal part of the reason that when lorenzo got a hold of CAL, he moved them out of California. (not just right to work/hire replacement workers. Something more) This CAL mgt team has zero experience running an airline apart from those rights.

We need to:

learn our new agreement and fly it to the letter

Try to get thru SLI quickly. New list comes out, don't look at the old one ever again

Get rid of ALPA

What jeff will be doing:

Schemeing another strategic bk. Somehow we need to attack that strategy.

Well said.

 

[Flopgut]

Well said.

I believe you and I are solidly on the same page. Soon, we will no longer be two pilot groups separated by a common union.

 

[General Lee]

BULLS#!T What rock have you been living under. It never has and never will honor seniority.

Ummmmm, what? The number 1 guy gets exactly what he wants, as long as vacation doesn't get in the way. The number 2 gets what he wants, unless the number 1 wanted it. Rinse and repeat...... It's not that bad, if you're senior. We also use PBS to bid for recurrent.


Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[Flopgut]

CAL PBS: Number 100 guy gets what he wants, unless number 700 wants it...

 

[Bringupthebird]

10,000 letters of resignation will fully restore control back to the pilots, RLA cannot prevent quitting, when you all recognize that smallsack et al have far more to lose than you do, you will prevail. How many millions does his golden parachute contain? ALPA isn't your problem, it sits in the seat next to you, 67% have the spinal consistency of warm jello. Want a preview of your "new" union, check the Cactus result.

Ansett anyone?

 

[Bringupthebird]

CAL PBS: Number 100 guy gets what he wants, unless number 700 wants it...

Then you must have a complete understanding of how PBS develops the bid results and why that happens.

Go ahead with your explanation. If you want to improve your contract, put the effort where it will do the most good. Blaming PBS is foolish.


(BTW - AWA bought the cheapest PBS available, but it had a pretty decent scheduling section (after C-2004) which is one reason why PBS works for us.)

 

[wms]

Depends on the PBS product and they variables in it.

 

[ForgedBlade]

PBS isn't the problem - it's the company's bastardization of it due to their f---ed up staffing levels that makes it lousy. I'm pretty high up in my base and have gone in to "Denial Mode 4" more times than I can count because I asked for some random weekend off but had to do it in a month with either training, vacation, or a holiday. It also holds true for December & January - asked for an arbitrary, non-holiday, weekend off in both months and got neither (again, Denial 4), but plenty of guys junior to me got that time off. Unfortunately, you can't drop a trip and trading is a crap-shoot, so you are left with only one choice...

 

[Andy]

PBS isn't the problem - it's the company's bastardization of it due to their f---ed up staffing levels that makes it lousy. I'm pretty high up in my base and have gone in to "Denial Mode 4" more times than I can count because I asked for some random weekend off but had to do it in a month with either training, vacation, or a holiday. It also holds true for December & January - asked for an arbitrary, non-holiday, weekend off in both months and got neither (again, Denial 4), but plenty of guys junior to me got that time off. Unfortunately, you can't drop a trip and trading is a crap-shoot, so you are left with only one choice...

I haven't lived under this PBS system for very long but that's probably the best description of LCAL's PBS system. And one of the reasons why I hate PBS and would like to see a return to bidding based on preconstructed lines.

PBS in the hands of benevolent management is acceptable. PBS in the hands of incompetent or pernicious management is a debacle.

I'm junior; I can't even hold a line. Yet I had a 5 day stretch off during Thanksgiving (mon-fri) and have 24 and 25 Dec off. I put in for those days off but I was very surprised that PBS gave them to me.

 

[bizicmo]

I think PBS is ok. I never lived under preconstructed lines so I can't compare to that. I understand why people like the preconstructed lines but good luck getting that back. I think you can put that one up there with scope going back to no outsourced flying. Somebody messed those up before I showed up.

ForgedBlade With not being about to hold a certain day or group of days off was that your number one priority? Or did you have other things at a higher priority like no CCS or no 5 day trips or limiting set statements? I'm just curious.

The vacation bid issues should hopefully clear up now that the line construction credit has been increased for the vacation days.

 

[wms]

With a few company-induced exceptions, the PBS at CRJ-xjet is awesome. Was on reserve when we got it an am now #5 on different equipment, and like it in both situations. But Ual getting the lcal system has me rethinking applying there.