ATTENTION NJA PILOTS: Captain overide pay!

[FrontierFan]

Hey Guys,

I am sorry. I will be sure to inform the 350+ pilots on the pilot seniority list that we all have to be here for at least a year of two before we have the privilege of posting on flightinfo.com that we would like to try for another initiative to earn bypass pay…and receive “not as much sympathy for them.” It is really nice to know that all 350 of us can truly count on the support of our more senior union family.

bluepost, make sure to pass off all of your unifying ideals in the up and coming New Hires section on the njasap website. It has the possibility of having a great touch at the attempt at unity.

 

[jpilot]

I second Griz's response. Although I am on Captain by-pass pay, I have wanted the Captain bid for the Beechjet from the day they announced getting them. It's my only hope to get a Captain slot. I didn't plan on waiting 5 years to get a Captain's slot here cause when I got hired people were getting the Captain's slot shortly after getting hired. That all ended over 2 and 1/2 years ago, shortly after I got hired. It's not just about the money. Some of us need the PIC jet time to further our careers. If you think I'm going to give up my right to bid Captain AGAIN, you are mistaken. I did it last time to help. Maybe another year from now, but not now.

As Griz says, those that got hired here the past 6 months or so, knew what they were getting into. Even though you say you talked to NJA pilots, I'm sure no one told you about getting by-pass pay shortly after getting to NJA.

Sorry to hear about your financial hardships. We are all dealing with them. I personally would think about moving on if I was stuck on SIC pay for any great length of time since there is no training contract anymore.

 

[Grizz]

I was hired at the end of August. I was excited in coming before the TA was announced. I came here from a regional where I was going to receive my captain award the following month. Everything I heard was that the TA was going to pass and life was going to be great.

Before I left the regionals I meet countless NJA line pilots going to or coming from CMH. They all said the same things. “I have been through lots of xyz outfits and NetJets treats me great. If we could get the contract figured out than this would be a great place to be”. Everyone I knew at NetJets told me that the TA was getting close and the rumors were that everyone hired after the signing were going to get stuck in only five cities. I rolled the dice and accepted the position before the TA was announced.

....

Things are hard now but I do not regret coming to NetJets. I do however have trouble paying my bills on the flex without the bypass pay. The $27,000 / year base pay was not what I or many others were planning on.

I'm sorry you've having trouble making ends meet. I truly am. But what pay were you counting on? Monopoly money?

There were a number of us including myself that were very vocal on this board starting in the May time frame talking about how things were heading south on negotiations. Before the TA came out, there was absolutely no doubt in my mind that it was going to be unpassable. What I didn't count on was the fact that the Fab 5 were going to work so hard to try and get it to pass. I was pleasantly surprised at how badly they failed.

Frontier, you sound very much like someone who approached this job only hearing the things he wanted to hear. Now that it didn't work out for you, we should be the ones to fix your problem. Sorry, it's not gonna happen. You're going to be an F/O here until such time as you have enough seniority to bid and hold a Captain's line. If you're already working the Flex, then you're making as much money as a F/O can make here. As you said, several of your classmates have already left. That should tell you something. Re-evaluate your decision knowing that it is going to be at least 5 years before upgrade here and probably closer to 7. Even with a new contract, that's a long time to be on F/O pay.

 

[Ditch-LRDriver]

Unity

Couple things to remember: There are 20-40 more Hawker 400XP's coming. There is only 1 vacation line per week, per crew for the 05'-06' bid. Very few PIC's and SIC's can hold the 7/7 right now. No one is trying to complain about our situation. We knew what we were getting ourselves into. Being that said, we are simply trying to improve the situation at our company.


OPERATION UNITY: 400XP NO-BID CAMPAIGN

Your fellow pilots need your help! Please take a few moments to read about our efforts, and help spread the word throughout the pilot group. With unity we can achieve great things!

BACKGROUND: Last year a grassroots campaign was successful in securing a junior bid in the 400XP, which resulted in over 100 of our fellow pilots achieving bypass pay. Through the dedicated effort of dozens of volunteers and the selfless generosity of senior bidders who waived their right to bid these positions, over 100 families now enjoy a living wage and a resounding message of unity and resolve was sent to the company. We have an excellent opportunity to build upon this achievement and demonstrate once again that this pilot group will not be divided.

WHY WE NEED YOUR HELP: Given the company's stubborn refusal to bring a serious contract proposal to the table and its demonstrated willingness to draw out negotiations as long as possible, this is one of the few tools we have at our disposal to apply leverage in a productive and meaningful way. Make no mistake about it----the company does NOT want this effort to succeed. On a more fundamental level, this is the only hope to achieve a living wage for a significant portion of the seniority list. Our pilots are the best and hardest-working in the industry and the fact that many are paid less than $28K per year is downright shameful.

THE PLAN: There is a bid for (4) 400XP captains which closes on February 25th, and with the help of our fellow pilots, we hope to secure at least one of these bids for a junior FO in the 400XP. We have identified two junior bidders who are willing to bid the positions and are capable of completing the training. If successful, this operation will achieve bypass pay for approximately 110 pilots and their families. Within the next week, dozens of volunteers will begin an intense phone-tree campaign to contact all pilots who may have bid, or may be considering bidding one of these positions. Our objective is to identify the senior bidders for these positions and lobby for their support and assistance in allowing this bid to go junior. We recognize and appreciate that this is a huge sacrifice on the part of senior pilots who wish to bid these positions and we do not take that sacrifice lightly. Your generosity and solidarity will not be forgotten by your fellow pilots.

WHAT YOU CAN DO: First and foremost, please spread the word to other NetJets pilots you meet on the road. We intend to personally contact every likely bidder for the 400XP, but the more pilots who are aware of this operation, the better our odds of success. Secondly, please help us by verifying and updating your contact information on the NJASAP website. We intend to scrupulously avoid using company time and resources (for example, pagers) for this campaign, so accurate phone and email contacts are vital. Last but certainly not least, please consider holding off on this bid, or retracting your bid if you have already submitted one. You will not only be helping out a large number of your fellow pilots, but also demonstrating the type of unity and teamwork that will ultimately win us the contract we deserve.

THANK-YOU! WE SINCERELY APPRECIATE YOUR HELP!

 

[FrontierFan]

I understand. The initiative will probably fail because people who already have the bypass pay will bid it anyway. There is lots of unity to be had at StrongUnion as long as you were hired over a year ago. If you are one of the 350 unfortunate souls that make up 18% of the 1995 pilot group than tough.

Why not at least leave the Beechjets alone. Allow all of the aircraft with APUs to go senior let the small stuff go to the junior folks. Or as Ditch-LRDriver pointed out, let the first couple of bids go junior and pick up your captain stripe after the initiative. Is your personal Beechjet Type that important anyway?

It is not like its pre 9/11. Of those who are hiring, who cares if you have Beechjet type to put you on top of the stack? Southwest, JetBlue and AirTran all require your PIC time to be 121 anyway and FedEx requires your PIC to be in aircraft with a MTOW of greater than 20,000lbs. So what opportunity are you referring to that you just have to have Beechjet type rating to get the job.

In addition, I thought that one of the main points of negotiations was going to make NJA a good place where people can stay long term. Do you not have enough faith in the MEC that you have to snatch up a Beechjet type (of all things) so you can leave?

I can’t understand any of this. When I was in new hire the StrongUnion people could not wait to talk to us. After I was on the line I received nothing short of open arms from senior people and talk of another initiative as soon as one could be arranged. Now either every person I met on the line was lying through his teeth or you guys are in left field.

For someone who already earns bypass pay to cheat 18% of your pilot group because you have a personal agenda is beyond tearing apart unity…..it is straight cowardice.

I am just calling a spade a spade

 

[buttercup]

I understand. The initiative will probably fail because people who already have the bypass pay will bid it anyway. There is lots of unity to be had at StrongUnion as long as you were hired over a year ago. If you are one of the 350 unfortunate souls that make up 18% of the 1995 pilot group than tough.

Why not at least leave the Beechjets alone. Allow all of the aircraft with APUs to go senior let the small stuff go to the junior folks. Or as Ditch-LRDriver pointed out, let the first couple of bids go junior and pick up your captain stripe after the initiative. Is your personal Beechjet Type that important anyway?

It is not like its pre 9/11. Of those who are hiring, who cares if you have Beechjet type to put you on top of the stack? Southwest, JetBlue and AirTran all require your PIC time to be 121 anyway and FedEx requires your PIC to be in aircraft with a MTOW of greater than 20,000lbs. So what opportunity are you referring to that you just have to have Beechjet type rating to get the job.

In addition, I thought that one of the main points of negotiations was going to make NJA a good place where people can stay long term. Do you not have enough faith in the MEC that you have to snatch up a Beechjet type (of all things) so you can leave?

I can’t understand any of this. When I was in new hire the StrongUnion people could not wait to talk to us. After I was on the line I received nothing short of open arms from senior people and talk of another initiative as soon as one could be arranged. Now either every person I met on the line was lying through his teeth or you guys are in left field.

For someone who already earns bypass pay to cheat 18% of your pilot group because you have a personal agenda is beyond tearing apart unity…..it is straight cowardice.

I am just calling a spade a spade

Frontier,

I respect your passion and seemingly unrelenting willingness to see this initiative through, however, I think this is alot different than last time.. The morale has decayed so severley that guys are now in self-protection mode.. I predict this bid will actually go fairly senior. With 91k and the gross mismanagement of crew manning , almost everyone on the 17 day scheduled will be involuntarily extended thus having to work 18 days a month.. That will drive guys to Bid the 400xp just to get the 2-3 extra days off per month!! Combine that with the low morale on the road, guys look forward to getting in the classroom and getting the type just to get away from the flying the line.. Nonetheless, I truly wish you well on your endeavor.. I won't be bidding the 400 !!

 

[FrontierFan]

forget it

 

[jpilot]

<<Southwest, JetBlue and AirTran all require your PIC time to be 121 anyway and FedEx requires your PIC to be in aircraft with a MTOW of greater than 20,000lbs.>>

With that statement, I must point out you are incorrect. Southwest is at LEAST 1000 hours PIC jet on the paperwork, no weight limit. JetBlue is at LEAST 1000 hours of jet time over 20,000 lbs. (No PIC time required) and yes AirTran requires at least 500 hours PIC of 121 experience (although occassionally someone corporate with BIG contacts gets in). As for FedEx it is 1000 hours PIC jet or turboprop (on the paperwork), no weight limited required.

I just wanted to point out to you not to get your hopes up for by-pass pay. The Beechjet will go very senior for awhile, with NO APU. The APU aircraft has been going 1000 seniority numbers and below. It's going to take quite a bit of time to get the bid for the Beechjet even, which is my only hope.

People are still being hired here at NJA so there will always be some not getting the by-pass pay. I'm really sorry about that, but that's the way it is. As has been pointed out, if NJA has a harder time attracting newhires, maybe just maybe we can get this contract done sooner. Now is not the time for HELPING with by-pass pay. We all are sacrificing.

As for why I need the PIC time or where I'm going really isn't relavant. We all came here for different reasons and mine was to get more PIC jet time to be competitive. It is my right to bid. I'm truly sorry for your hardship but I can't help you this time.

 

[luvu]

doing the right thing

Jpilot

Let's consider what the right thing to do on this one is. Working towards a huge pay raise for 350+ fellow pilots or supporting 4 pilots already drawing Captains pay in their pursuit of getting a few months head start on logging PIC jet time?

Having a right to do something is different than doing the right thing. You will not be anonymous if you choose to exercise this right. You will be proclaiming to the entire industry. Look at me, given a choice I choose to put myself above everyone else. At your next interview, I am sure this will go over real big.

In the interest of full disclosure I think you should dedicate a whole page in your log book to explaining just what you did to get that first 400XP PIC fight hour and what that single hour cost 350+ fellow pilots.

I'd say reasonable people would consider the price too high and you would be pitied for having thrown away the opportunity to have been a better man.

 

[FrontierFan]

Luvu,



You were able to express my thoughts exactly. How jpilot sleeps at night I will have no idea. I just can’t wait to see him on the line and explain how totally embarrassed I am that we belong to the same union. 350 “brothers and families” at stake and he wants more PIC time. He makes me sick. What a pile! I wonder if he wears a StrongUnion lanyard for show?

jpilot, you have no honor!