ATTENTION NJA PILOTS: Captain overide pay!

[jpilot]

You can threaten me all you want. This time the bid is NOT sanctioned by the union nor can they now that SU is in office. It IS the right of the members to bid by seniority. It's not about a couple of months. Heck, I could have gotten the last bid, so I have given up more than a couple of months.

Read the NJA boards. People of power in the union are not backing this idea. Get over it. It ain't happening.

 

[luvu]

pity is appropriate

FrontierFan

I think it is a noble effort. Those that pulled it off last time by withholding their bid earned a lot of respect. The kind of respect which combined with flight experience gets you letters of recommendation at companies worth working for.

It might just be the most honorable thing they do in their lives and 30 years from now it may be the thing that brings them the most enduring professional pride. As we get older, and I am older, we begin to realize how opportunities for making the grand and noble gesture are gifts of circumstance (or God depending on your persuasion) that are indeed quite rare. Great men recognize these opportunities for what they are and treasure them and are thankful for being able to do something that will achieve so much good.

To be angry at him is inappropriate, I think. The proper emotion is pity.

 

[luvu]

out of line

Jpilot,

NOBODY is threatening you. Nobody has threatened you. Get a grip! If you are losing it emotionally on this issue that voice you feel threatened by just might be your own conscience trying to knock some long term values into your head. You are being short sighted is all. We can deal with that. In fact we will have to.

 

[jpilot]

<<Having a right to do something is different than doing the right thing. You will not be anonymous if you choose to exercise this right. You will be proclaiming to the entire industry. Look at me, given a choice I choose to put myself above everyone else. At your next interview, I am sure this will go over real big.>>


That is a threat in my eyes. And another thing, you might think I am being selfish, quite the contrary. I feel you are being selfish asking us to forego a right we are entitled to. You go to the airlines, you expect to get FO pay until you upgrade. It is what NJA wants is infighting among us. You are doing a good job stirring it up.

I have done more to help get SU up and running than you could ever know, what are you volunteering for?

 

[luvu]

tragedy

jpilot

I apologize for posting something you perceived to be threatening. That was not my intent.

I do not think you are a bad person. In fact, you participated by your own account in the last Captain overide campaign and you have been active with SU so my opinion of you is actually quite high. You have earned respect by your past actions.

If you have ever studied literature then you will remember that there can be no great tragedy without a great fall. It isn't tragic to be born in the gutter although it is certainly sad. But to have been King and end your days in the gutter, Now that would be, by definition, a tragedy. You have risen to great heights with your past actions. Where now?

 

[CatYaaak]

You can threaten me all you want. This time the bid is NOT sanctioned by the union nor can they now that SU is in office. It IS the right of the members to bid by seniority. It's not about a couple of months. Heck, I could have gotten the last bid, so I have given up more than a couple of months.

Read the NJA boards. People of power in the union are not backing this idea. Get over it. It ain't happening.

New union dudes, same old song. It always comes down to this..how many airlines have we seen it at? Senior guys sh1tting on the junior guys of the so-called brotherhood, wagging fingers and telling them "I paid my dues, now sit down and shut up so I can get ahead Junior".

You certainly put your finger on it; "people in power", and we know what power can do. "Grass roots" is now only what they deem it to be, and not something that begins within the rank and file. I guess you all won't be holding hands and singing Kumbaya anytime soon?

 

[semperfido]

the airlines suffered with them and now bizjet people get to have the same old nightmare....UNIONS.

 

[CatYaaak]

Frontier, you sound very much like someone who approached this job only hearing the things he wanted to hear. Now that it didn't work out for you, we should be the ones to fix your problem. Sorry, it's not gonna happen. You're going to be an F/O here until such time as you have enough seniority to bid and hold a Captain's line. QUOTE]

My, my, the Emperor has no clothes.

Gee, and here I thought that the WHOLE POINT of having a union was to "fix problems" of the membership/brotherhood/pilot group and better their situation. Doesn't Frontier (and 349 others with more on the way) qualify? It's quite telling that you referred to Frontier's situation as "your problem", rather than accept his part of the same low-wage contract as "our problem". Hey Griz, when YOU joined the company, didn't you help enable, by virtue of accepting them, the same low wages he's now having to deal with?

So a few mere months ago you helped rally the troops to what you said then was a noble cause, and successfully used bid-manuevering as a tool to better the condition of your lowest-paid. Now you refuse to even consider picking up that very same successful tool, and chastize your junior member here as if he's promoting something ridiculous even though it's only 1 seat that needs to go junior.

So I guess if you didn't think of using it, it's different? Or are your new SU leaders simply too busy sitting around circle-jerking yourselves into a frenzy over "important" courtroom, tangental issues like NJI (which does nothing to better your condition), so have no time left over to provide the leadership it takes to persuade the rank and file that another salary-win for your lowest-paid brothers is another win for all?

Call me crazy, but perhaps a repeated show of such unity every time the opportunity presents itself...one that forces the company to pay captain's wages to practically everyone who comes on the property....would go a long way towards convincing them that they might as well write into a new contract those same higher wages for your newbies.

Frontier is complaining about pay, not obtaining a captain's seat out of seniority as you imply. Pay. The same complaint you have/had. His complaint regarding being sold a bill of goods and empty promises is exactly the same one that inspired the formation of SU, and anyone getting hired there since the Teamsters came on property accepted the low-pay in part based on the predictions of imaginary contracts. Does this include you?

Gee Griz, you sound very much like someone who approached your job only hearing things you wanted to hear, and even a failed attempt at persuading your rank and file to repeat the victory on the wage front is better that sh1tting on your own junior members for merely suggesting it.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[FrontierFan]

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[FrontierFan]

deleted