ATTENTION Furloughe ALPA Members

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I spoke to my MEC duty officer .

FedEx?

 

[michael707767]

FedEx?

No. Why?

 

[spanky2]

ALPA SHMALPA ... ALPA is the Borg ... all will be assimilated ... resistance is futile.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No. Why?

FX has lots of military and they use duty officer terms. The same at your place?

 

[michael707767]

FX has lots of military and they use duty officer terms. The same at your place?

Delta. Yes, I am ex military. Yes, a lot of former military here.

 

[CRJDog]

I think there should be a national vote among all ALPA members to abolish ALPA. We pay them so they can collect our dues and sit on their fat posteriors while our way of life goes to hell in a hand basket.

Or..

Every Dues paying ALPA member wether it be regional, national or legacy walk off the job and say "Enough is enough." That will get someones attention.

 

[mdanno808]

The bottom line is ALPA eats it's young. It always has, and it always will. Don't you think it's funny that DW and the other ALPA bigwigs were against upping the age 60 rule until a huge ammount of senior, dues paying members were facing a retirement without a pension? Look at the senior UAL guys. Making 300+ dollars an hour a few years ago with an A and a B fund worth a hell of a lot of money. Unfortunately, now, unless they saved and planned for the worst, they are in deep trouble. I am a furloughed ALPA pilot, and I think it is total BS we can't vote, but it most certainly doesn't surprise me.

 

[AlbieF15]

For what its worth....

I am an ALPA member, I am against age 60, I didn't like our "official" support of many candidates for office, and I also think Duane's salary is a bit offensive based on the suffering of a lot of airline guys out there right now.

So why am I wearing my pin every day?

Well...I can't fix an organization from the outside. I cannot throw rocks at others and drive them to my way of thinking. Conversely, working with others in the organization (professionally and with the spirit of mutual respect) perhaps I can make a difference. Spewing venom with an anonymous screen name certainly won't do anything.

Let's not forget some of the good work our union does do. We have a resource for safety issues, legal issues, health issues, as well as a network which allows us to examine what other carriers are doing well (and not so well) in a variety of issues. Anyway who has ever had to ask for help from an ALPA lawyer for an FAA issue or queried a medical expert while trying to regain a medical after some health issues will tell you their dues were well spent. I hope not to need those services, but I'm darn glad they are there.

Additionally, at our MEC there are several great insurance benefits that are only availalbe to members. Personally, I just consider my dues as part of the premiums. It is nice to be part of an organization, albeit imperfect, that put's the interests of pilots ahead of the interests of shareholders or the company, and it is a source of great insight and information when you find your goals and the company goals might be in conflict.

It is also nice to have a tie to the guys at Delta, Continental, and a host of other ALPA carriers. I don't begrudge the SWA, AA, or UPS guys for having their own union, nor do I think JB guys should join us--at least as long as management continues to prove the have the integrity to back up their promises. You guys all need to do what is best for your own pilot group. I don't always like our union positions on certain issues, and there are always people within an organization who might rub you the wrong way. However, I cannot imagine any of us going man v man with a company the size of Delta, American, FedEx, or whowever without some kind of organized support. We (collectively...I wasn't here then) ran ALPA off our property once, then decided that darn it...maybe we could use some help after all. So...like family, I have always recommend criticize in private and praise in public. What does that mean for me?

1. My union speaks for me.
2. One more day of retro pay.

 

[klhoard]

Albie,

You forgot about the "member only" credit card offers!!!
.
.
.
.

 

[seefive]

if you didn't save for your retirement, you're an idiot!! now you want to screw over the younger guys. age 60 has been in place for a long time and now that some didn't plan properly, they want to change the rules. i'm sure you believe that your flying skills/cognitive ability haven't slowed but you're wrong.

 

[CarjCapt]

if you didn't save for your retirement, you're an idiot!!

Must not be a idiot, did save for retirement.

[/QUOTE] now you want to screw over the younger guys. age 60 has been in place for a long time and now that some didn't plan properly, they want to change the rules.[/QUOTE]

Yes we want to change the rules back where they were and belong. Also, if they change, you can negotiate your retirement age just like Canada Jazz. This doen't have anything about screwing anyone, it is correctiing a long time wrong.

[/QUOTE] i'm sure you believe that your flying skills/cognitive ability haven't slowed but you're wrong.[/QUOTE]

Yes I agree I'm alot slower on the trigger and more measured. Never had a problem with skills even up to my last PC ride where the FO almost busted and he was 1/2 my age. Go figure

 

[seefive]

Carj Capt.

Quick question. If you saved for retirement, why not retire at 60? I suspect you didn't save enough. No offense intended. I don't think it's because of your love of flying and staying in hotels. This is a very contentious issue and it stirs emotions.
Glad you passed your checkride.

 

[CarjCapt]

Carj Capt.

Quick question. If you saved for retirement, why not retire at 60? I suspect you didn't save enough. No offense intended. I don't think it's because of your love of flying and staying in hotels. This is a very contentious issue and it stirs emotions.
Glad you passed your checkride.

Saved quite enough, thank you. You don't know me or my situation, having said that I will tell you that I loved my job and love flying first and formost, the compensation was secondary and didn't want to leave.

Remember this, "love what you do and do what you love."

Even if the law is changed the chances of returning are slim and none because there isn't any thing in most contracts that would allow retirees to return (unlike AWA). Your seat/upgrade/QOL won't be effected, because if it changes you can fight your retirees from returning.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

AlbieF15,

I am sorry but your post is inappropriate. You see this message board is for sport bitching and uniformed vitrol. Moderate, fact based, due diligence and pragmatism have no place here. No one can feed off of your post... it isn't productive...

Sarcasm switch now being moved to the O-F-F position.

 

[ferlo]

I know this post is akin to beating a dead horse but I have to reiterate, in the strongest possible terms.

ALPA IS TRYING TO RAILROAD US!

The pilots that want age 60 extended benefitted their entire career from it, now their on top of the wall and they want to pull up the ladder. This is Classic ALPA at it's best. Just like when they confiscated tens of thousands of stock options from furloughed US Air pilots and reissued it among the remaining pilots.

I feel terrible for all those who have had their retirement stripped from them in the court system, however, it is high time ALPA start fighting for the majority of us. I know there are some guys who really need the extra money out there. I also know there are a hel* of a lot of guys out there with multiple ex-wives, expensive toys, idiotic investment ideas that blew up in their faces. I will be dam*ned if I sit here and let ALPA destroy my career expectations just to appease a handful of ill-prepared pilots.

I SMELL A RAT, AND THE RAT IS WEARING AN ALPA PIN!!!!!!!


We are at War here guys. Your Union is trying to choke you. Don't believe anything else.

 

[MK82Man]

Serious Margin of Error with Age 60 Survey

TWA Dude is correct, new hires (apprentice members) cannot participate in the survey:

Eligibility for Age 60 Survey:

All U.S. and Canadian pilots who are active members in good standing are eligible to participate in the survey. The survey is not open to furloughed pilots, apprentices, or any member whose leave status causes him to become inactive. The Age 60 survey results will be critical to ALPA's elected leadership in determining the Association's future policy and course of action related to the FAA's Age 60 Rule. For this reason, we are seeking to get an accurate assessment of the views of the voting membership and limiting survey participation to pilots eligible to vote

 

[SleepyF18]

Albie,


I knew I was right when I tried to recruit you.

Albie speaks the truth, if you want to have a better voice in what goes on, run for an office or volunteer for a committee and try to change it for the better from the inside. We have several younger guys here at FDX ALPA and the older guys on the MEC welcome it for the fresh perspective we bring to the table. It pays to get involved guys.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Web Board;


Just did my ALPA Age 60 survey last night while on an overnight in OAK.
Luckily, I just happened to read thru this thread before logging on. Anyway long story short,the situation about all you furloughed members not being allowed to participate in the SURVEY really got under my skin. So I thought I would share with you what I posted when they asked towards the end of the SURVEY if there was any issues that I would like to address regarding Age 60. So,for what it's worth,here it goes....

"Words cannot describe how annoyed I am at ALPA National for not allowing all the furloughed ALPA pilots @ United,Continental,Independence,Northwest, ATA,Delta,USAir and others that probably don't come to mind right now from participating in this survey. I realize that ALPA by-laws stipulates that they aren't allowed to vote, but THIS IS A SURVEY,NOT AN ELECTION. I say let the furloughed ALPA pilots have the opportunity to participate or your results will not be accurate nor will they be a true reflection of the ALPA pilots feelings regarding the issue of Age 60 retirement."

Thought I'd try to go to bat for you guys....


PHXFLYR
He who prefers retirement@ Age 55!!

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Web Board;


Just did my ALPA Age 60 survey last night while on an overnight in OAK.
Luckily, I just happened to read thru this thread before logging on. Anyway long story short,the situation about all you furloughed members not being allowed to participate in the SURVEY really got under my skin. So I thought I would share with you what I posted when they asked towards the end of the SURVEY if there was any issues that I would like to address regarding Age 60. So,for what it's worth,here it goes....

"Words cannot describe how annoyed I am at ALPA National for not allowing all the furloughed ALPA pilots @ United,Continental,Independence,Northwest, ATA,Delta,USAir and others that probably don't come to mind right now from participating in this survey. I realize that ALPA by-laws stipulates that they aren't allowed to vote, but THIS IS A SURVEY,NOT AN ELECTION. I say let the furloughed ALPA pilots have the opportunity to participate or your results will not be accurate nor will they be a true reflection of the ALPA pilots feelings regarding the issue of Age 60 retirement."

Thought I'd try to go to bat for you guys....


PHXFLYR
He who prefers retirement@ Age 55!!

As much as I applaud and respect your comments to ALPA, I'm WAY too cynical and firmly believe it won't mean a darn thing to Duane and his cronies. ALPA National Leadership is only concerned about one thing - themselves! They aren't any better than the CEO's.

If Duane and his ilk are really concerned about the industry and the pilots they are supposed to SUPPORT, I say they ALL should give up their ALPA salaries and perks until the industry rights itself. Or at the very least, get paid a salary that is the median average of all regionals FIRST YEAR F/O pay!

A lot of furloughed guys are struggling financially (us regional guys aren't too far beind) and yet Duane has no problem accepting his salary/perks.

Makes me want to hurl...

Rant is now complete...

HMM

 

[fam62c]

Who makes the decision?

ALPA isn't going to decide whether or not a federal law gets changed anyway regardless of survey results. ALPA will have a voice but let's face it, how many people in the government today really care what a labor union thinks? ALPA doesn't have the political clout that it had when the industry was making money and the Democrats were in office. I'm not really for or against the age 60 policy but it's my belief that sooner or later the law will be overturned anyway, regarless of the ALPA position, because it's a case of blatant age discrimination. One day you're an airline CA and the next day you're nothing even though you can still pass a physical and a checkride and fly the plane as safely as you did the day before? It flies in the face of common sense and fairness even thought it may benefit a lot of younger pilots. This is really a discrimination issue but the survey results won't reflect that. People will vote on the basis of: "will it help me or will it hurt me?" I think it's pretty obvious how almost every furloughed pilot is going to vote and given the current mess that the industry is in that's understandable. It's really a political question; how much influence should furloughed pilots who are not paying dues have over union policy making? I don't know the answer to that question. Also, how can a union make all of it's members happy? I do know the answer to that one; it's not possible because there are two sides to every issue but the union can only choose one course. Somebody isn't going to get their way.

As far as the ALPA bashing goes I think that also depends on where you are. If you were hired at DAL or UAL or wherever in the mid to late 1990's when they had awesome contracts and your future looked bright you probably thought ALPA was great. Like most pilots you probably never lifted a finger or spent a minute of your free time doing volunteer work for your union but you probably thought ALPA was just fine, especially on payday. When you got laid off, downgraded, disappointed or whatever you probably thought that ALPA was terrible because somehow they didn't protect your rosy future. The fact is that ALPA didn't create the fantastic economy that got you hired and they also didn't create the current mess that got you laid off, or hurt in some other way. ALPA doesn't run airlines and they don't control the economy. No matter how much we would like to have great paying jobs for everyone, ALPA can't make that happen. We're in a very competitive industry that's heavily dependent on the economy and market forces and ALPA can't change that. Any organization has it's flaws but ALPA has done a lot more good than bad over the years for the profession. I've worked for an airline with no union (and nasty vindictive managers) and I've worked at an ALPA carrier and I can tell you firsthand that there's a big difference. You think ALPA's bad? Try working at a carrier where they can tell you to fly or be fired, regardless of legality and maybe even safety, and you have no recourse. Most pilots don't know what that's like but I do so I can appreciate ALPA, even with all of it's faults. I'm sorry if your dreams and expectations got tarnished but ALPA didn't cause it to happen.