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ATTENTION Furloughe ALPA Members

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seefive said:
if you didn't save for your retirement, you're an idiot!!

Must not be a idiot, did save for retirement.

[/QUOTE] now you want to screw over the younger guys. age 60 has been in place for a long time and now that some didn't plan properly, they want to change the rules.[/QUOTE]

Yes we want to change the rules back where they were and belong. Also, if they change, you can negotiate your retirement age just like Canada Jazz. This doen't have anything about screwing anyone, it is correctiing a long time wrong.

[/QUOTE] i'm sure you believe that your flying skills/cognitive ability haven't slowed but you're wrong.[/QUOTE]

Yes I agree I'm alot slower on the trigger and more measured. Never had a problem with skills even up to my last PC ride where the FO almost busted and he was 1/2 my age. Go figure
 
Carj Capt.

Quick question. If you saved for retirement, why not retire at 60? I suspect you didn't save enough. No offense intended. I don't think it's because of your love of flying and staying in hotels. This is a very contentious issue and it stirs emotions.
Glad you passed your checkride.
 
seefive said:
Carj Capt.

Quick question. If you saved for retirement, why not retire at 60? I suspect you didn't save enough. No offense intended. I don't think it's because of your love of flying and staying in hotels. This is a very contentious issue and it stirs emotions.
Glad you passed your checkride.

Saved quite enough, thank you. You don't know me or my situation, having said that I will tell you that I loved my job and love flying first and formost, the compensation was secondary and didn't want to leave.

Remember this, "love what you do and do what you love."

Even if the law is changed the chances of returning are slim and none because there isn't any thing in most contracts that would allow retirees to return (unlike AWA). Your seat/upgrade/QOL won't be effected, because if it changes you can fight your retirees from returning.
 
AlbieF15,

I am sorry but your post is inappropriate. You see this message board is for sport bitching and uniformed vitrol. Moderate, fact based, due diligence and pragmatism have no place here. No one can feed off of your post... it isn't productive...

Sarcasm switch now being moved to the O-F-F position.
 
I know this post is akin to beating a dead horse but I have to reiterate, in the strongest possible terms.

ALPA IS TRYING TO RAILROAD US!

The pilots that want age 60 extended benefitted their entire career from it, now their on top of the wall and they want to pull up the ladder. This is Classic ALPA at it's best. Just like when they confiscated tens of thousands of stock options from furloughed US Air pilots and reissued it among the remaining pilots.

I feel terrible for all those who have had their retirement stripped from them in the court system, however, it is high time ALPA start fighting for the majority of us. I know there are some guys who really need the extra money out there. I also know there are a hel* of a lot of guys out there with multiple ex-wives, expensive toys, idiotic investment ideas that blew up in their faces. I will be dam*ned if I sit here and let ALPA destroy my career expectations just to appease a handful of ill-prepared pilots.

I SMELL A RAT, AND THE RAT IS WEARING AN ALPA PIN!!!!!!!


We are at War here guys. Your Union is trying to choke you. Don't believe anything else.
 
Serious Margin of Error with Age 60 Survey

TWA Dude is correct, new hires (apprentice members) cannot participate in the survey:

Eligibility for Age 60 Survey:

All U.S. and Canadian pilots who are active members in good standing are eligible to participate in the survey. The survey is not open to furloughed pilots, apprentices, or any member whose leave status causes him to become inactive. The Age 60 survey results will be critical to ALPA's elected leadership in determining the Association's future policy and course of action related to the FAA's Age 60 Rule. For this reason, we are seeking to get an accurate assessment of the views of the voting membership and limiting survey participation to pilots eligible to vote
 
Albie,


I knew I was right when I tried to recruit you.

Albie speaks the truth, if you want to have a better voice in what goes on, run for an office or volunteer for a committee and try to change it for the better from the inside. We have several younger guys here at FDX ALPA and the older guys on the MEC welcome it for the fresh perspective we bring to the table. It pays to get involved guys.
 
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Web Board;


Just did my ALPA Age 60 survey last night while on an overnight in OAK.
Luckily, I just happened to read thru this thread before logging on. Anyway long story short,the situation about all you furloughed members not being allowed to participate in the SURVEY really got under my skin. So I thought I would share with you what I posted when they asked towards the end of the SURVEY if there was any issues that I would like to address regarding Age 60. So,for what it's worth,here it goes....

"Words cannot describe how annoyed I am at ALPA National for not allowing all the furloughed ALPA pilots @ United,Continental,Independence,Northwest, ATA,Delta,USAir and others that probably don't come to mind right now from participating in this survey. I realize that ALPA by-laws stipulates that they aren't allowed to vote, but THIS IS A SURVEY,NOT AN ELECTION. I say let the furloughed ALPA pilots have the opportunity to participate or your results will not be accurate nor will they be a true reflection of the ALPA pilots feelings regarding the issue of Age 60 retirement."

Thought I'd try to go to bat for you guys....


PHXFLYR:cool:
He who prefers retirement@ Age 55!!:D
 
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PHXFLYR said:
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Web Board;


Just did my ALPA Age 60 survey last night while on an overnight in OAK.
Luckily, I just happened to read thru this thread before logging on. Anyway long story short,the situation about all you furloughed members not being allowed to participate in the SURVEY really got under my skin. So I thought I would share with you what I posted when they asked towards the end of the SURVEY if there was any issues that I would like to address regarding Age 60. So,for what it's worth,here it goes....

"Words cannot describe how annoyed I am at ALPA National for not allowing all the furloughed ALPA pilots @ United,Continental,Independence,Northwest, ATA,Delta,USAir and others that probably don't come to mind right now from participating in this survey. I realize that ALPA by-laws stipulates that they aren't allowed to vote, but THIS IS A SURVEY,NOT AN ELECTION. I say let the furloughed ALPA pilots have the opportunity to participate or your results will not be accurate nor will they be a true reflection of the ALPA pilots feelings regarding the issue of Age 60 retirement."

Thought I'd try to go to bat for you guys....


PHXFLYR:cool:
He who prefers retirement@ Age 55!!:D

As much as I applaud and respect your comments to ALPA, I'm WAY too cynical and firmly believe it won't mean a darn thing to Duane and his cronies. ALPA National Leadership is only concerned about one thing - themselves! They aren't any better than the CEO's.

If Duane and his ilk are really concerned about the industry and the pilots they are supposed to SUPPORT, I say they ALL should give up their ALPA salaries and perks until the industry rights itself. Or at the very least, get paid a salary that is the median average of all regionals FIRST YEAR F/O pay!

A lot of furloughed guys are struggling financially (us regional guys aren't too far beind) and yet Duane has no problem accepting his salary/perks.

Makes me want to hurl...

Rant is now complete...

HMM
 
Who makes the decision?

ALPA isn't going to decide whether or not a federal law gets changed anyway regardless of survey results. ALPA will have a voice but let's face it, how many people in the government today really care what a labor union thinks? ALPA doesn't have the political clout that it had when the industry was making money and the Democrats were in office. I'm not really for or against the age 60 policy but it's my belief that sooner or later the law will be overturned anyway, regarless of the ALPA position, because it's a case of blatant age discrimination. One day you're an airline CA and the next day you're nothing even though you can still pass a physical and a checkride and fly the plane as safely as you did the day before? It flies in the face of common sense and fairness even thought it may benefit a lot of younger pilots. This is really a discrimination issue but the survey results won't reflect that. People will vote on the basis of: "will it help me or will it hurt me?" I think it's pretty obvious how almost every furloughed pilot is going to vote and given the current mess that the industry is in that's understandable. It's really a political question; how much influence should furloughed pilots who are not paying dues have over union policy making? I don't know the answer to that question. Also, how can a union make all of it's members happy? I do know the answer to that one; it's not possible because there are two sides to every issue but the union can only choose one course. Somebody isn't going to get their way.

As far as the ALPA bashing goes I think that also depends on where you are. If you were hired at DAL or UAL or wherever in the mid to late 1990's when they had awesome contracts and your future looked bright you probably thought ALPA was great. Like most pilots you probably never lifted a finger or spent a minute of your free time doing volunteer work for your union but you probably thought ALPA was just fine, especially on payday. When you got laid off, downgraded, disappointed or whatever you probably thought that ALPA was terrible because somehow they didn't protect your rosy future. The fact is that ALPA didn't create the fantastic economy that got you hired and they also didn't create the current mess that got you laid off, or hurt in some other way. ALPA doesn't run airlines and they don't control the economy. No matter how much we would like to have great paying jobs for everyone, ALPA can't make that happen. We're in a very competitive industry that's heavily dependent on the economy and market forces and ALPA can't change that. Any organization has it's flaws but ALPA has done a lot more good than bad over the years for the profession. I've worked for an airline with no union (and nasty vindictive managers) and I've worked at an ALPA carrier and I can tell you firsthand that there's a big difference. You think ALPA's bad? Try working at a carrier where they can tell you to fly or be fired, regardless of legality and maybe even safety, and you have no recourse. Most pilots don't know what that's like but I do so I can appreciate ALPA, even with all of it's faults. I'm sorry if your dreams and expectations got tarnished but ALPA didn't cause it to happen.
 
I don't blame ALPA for being furloughed, being broke, or being stupid. I know they have done a lot for our profession, and I appreciate all that they have done. Having said that, I also think that they have allowed themselves to become extremely political, and I think we all know that there are certain groups in our industry whom ALPA pays a little more attention to. ALPA is in a difficult position nowadays. There are thousands on the street, which equalls less dues. Of course they want the furloughee's back. However, they don't want to piss off the senior active pilot's who are now facing a retirement without a pension. Guess who wins this tug of war. Unions are an absolute necessity. That goes without saying. I just happen to feel that this particular union has a lot of faults. ALPA is a necessary evil. It also has a history of eating it's young. But, like you said, it does beat flying the FAR's for a scum-bag outfit that will fire you for calling in sick.
 
mdanno808 said:
, I also think that they have allowed themselves to become extremely political,

This is saying the Pope allowed himself to become extremely Catholic.


ALPA was created as a political organization. Has function as a political organization......

[In fact, the Air Transport Association, airline managements political arm, (they have a PAC too) was created in part due to ALPA's political effectiveness in Wash DC.]

The Age60 rule is a gov't law it will be changed on CapHill. CapHill where the politicians work.

EVERYTHING that effects our careers, from the MEC negotiating table to age60, CASS, FFDO, duty times, the jB 8hour exemption, is done on CapHill.

If the FARs don't rule our profession then the CBA does. FARs=CFR, CBA=RLA. CFR and RLA means politics. ALPA knows this, that is why WE (you and me) are a political organization.

The issue is no one wants to acknowledge the huge elephant in the room. The elephant is politics. If you want to be a spectator in your airline career, then keep hanging out on flightinfo........

....or get involved.......no, this isn't a volunteer speech. Just get educated and particpate. You don't have to become a politicians, just support the ones that support you. (your politicans are; LEC/MEC Officers, EVP, National Officers (I know, I know, our beloved DW! :rolleyes: and your gov't politicans.) ALPA is a resource not a service. Know how the system works. In my opinion most of you don't. And that is yours and ALPA's fault.

Once ALPA has decided what thier position on Age60 will be, now what? Well if you agree with the updated position (it maybe the same, it may not) then how will ALPA influence CapHill? ALPA-PAC is one method. Do you contribute? Probably not.

If you don't agree with the updated ALPA position on Age60, then you lost a political battle. It happens all the time. But that doesn't mean you pout like a five year old and post your resignation letter to Duane on flightinfo and wear your pin upside down or not at all. No, you stay engaged, and you continue to be a positive member, because age60 is just one of many issues.

It is extremely fustrating to see grown professional pilots whining cause ALPA isn't thier everything. Hey, my wife isn't my everything. ALPA isn't perfect, never tried to be, and niether is the church, your airline, your family and your country. Get over it. Stick with the program. Continue to have a place at the table and contribute positvely!

USAtoday just ran an article on WalMart and thier lobbying efforts. If WalMart can spend millions to influence CapHill to create legislation to better thier interests, can't you send $50 lousy dollars to ALPA-PAC to influence your interests? Most of you don't know about ALPA-PAC or you think the PAC supports liberal, socialist issues. You could never be more wrong.

Your LEC Officers should have four LEC meetings a year. You can't make at least one of these? And becuase you don't, a core group of pilots (14) showed up to the UAL SFO meeting and said the entire LEC supports an age60 change.

As a previous poster stated, during the good times no one worries about ALPA or ALPA is great for the industry leading CBA that got me my Benz, but when times go bad..........

During the good times is when we need to be stocking our War Chest. Getting educated, informed, so when the bad times come when can focus on the issues and not the blame game....
 
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Rez:


I hope you are a FedEx pilot 'cause guys like you and Albie15 are what's gonna carry us through negotiations. Actually KL, tonyC (haven't seen him for awhile), VaB, USNFDX, Sandman2122, et al. will too. They're like me however and can't resisit the occasional jab. You two guys seem to be above that. Are you human?
Oh yeah and Goose17.
Regards,
 
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Boeingman said:
Sooner or later people will learn there are two very distinct groups within ALPA. Those that have benefited from ALPA and those that have been..........well you get the picture.

BM, as a former member with several years of ALPA membership (121 carrier), I couldn't agree more. Sad, but true.
 
You missed the point of my post if you think I don't realize that ALPA is a political function. I realize that they lobby, they schmooze politicians, and they do all this in the interest of you and I. What I meant in my previous post is that the people that get the most representation is the senior groups at the major carriers. Again, I'm not whining about this, I am just stating a fact. You should know this also. The purpose of a union is to represent all of it's members to it's best abilities, and unite the group. Again, I am not trying to come across as whining, I am just explaining the way I see things. I also do appreciate what ALPA does for you and I. Should I run off a runway, they will try and keep me my job. Should management blatently screw the pilot group at my airline, ALPA will allow us to stand up for ourselves without losing our jobs. I also was involved in ALPA at my previous carrier on 2 different committees. I know that a lot of people work hard to serve the pilot's they represent. My bitch is not with them. This string's content is based on ALPA not allowing furloughed members to take part in a survey which will very much affect them in their carreers. Is this looking out for all of it's members best interests?
 

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