Attention Former Jetblue Pilots

[Bavarian Chef]

Gee, you are all over the place, Chef...

First you describe the loophole as a binding contract between two parties, one of which...well, you know the rest. You wrote it.

Then you say that you don't agree with what you wrote.

Sorry...I guess I don't get your point.

Whatever you say. Good luck in the Left Seat.

 

[Dogwood]

It is not greed. It is lost wages. Lost wages due to inflation. Lost wages for no pay raises from 2001-2007 and minor ones after that. A retro pay raise of 26% would correct for the 22-24% inflation and then give us enough for another year. It is not greed, it is what we were promised from the beginning (but they failed to deliver)

Just my opinion.......

FNG

FNG,

You've just shown you true colors. This is about getting back at the company.

Question...

Do you honestly feel that raising the pay of everyone just because the new hire pay was raised, was the true intent of this language?

Honest answer, now. Don't answer just based on what the wording appears to say.

Naturally the answer is no.

This was not the intent of the company, nor was it your understanding at the time you signed the agreement.

The company owes you nothing, and in arbitration will be ruled accordingly.

 

[PsubS]

Do you honestly feel that raising the pay of everyone just because the new hire pay was raised, was the true intent of this language?

Dogwood, I've asked that very same question and cannot get a straight answer. It seems that the "I'm getting mine because the company has screwed me in the past" attitude is prevalent.

To be completely fair, some pilots strongly believe that this is just a legitimate contract dispute, which is-at it's basest form-correct. Certainly the issue is about contract wording.

Press on with the mediation/arbitration. That's your right guys.

Just don't expect me to sit back and support your chest thumping in cyberspace.

 

[PsubS]

Whatever you say. Good luck in the Left Seat.

Thank you. I earned it by way of my reported old age and aforementioned greatly admired testicles.

 

[shadesofBS]

FNG,

You've just shown you true colors. This is about getting back at the company.

Question...

Do you honestly feel that raising the pay of everyone just because the new hire pay was raised, was the true intent of this language?

Honest answer, now. Don't answer just based on what the wording appears to say.

Naturally the answer is no.

This was not the intent of the company, nor was it your understanding at the time you signed the agreement.

The company owes you nothing, and in arbitration will be ruled accordingly.

I don't know how the company interprets 3A but I ABSOLUTELY view the intent of 3A as protection from the following scenario:

Being sold during your interview on a set of assumptions about pay and benefits then finding (after you've invested several years of service) that they would rather invest elsewhere.

We TOLD them those 190 rates were too low to begin with but it was just too much of a temptation for Jetblue to say, "we need to let the airplane prove itself" and then spend the next three years "fixing" those pay rates while they neglected the rest of us - which I firmly believe was their intention all along.

I feel absolutely justified in pursuing recovery in this case because Jetblue said one thing and did another. It appears that my contract has protection from what I viewed as a con job the day those 190s were announced.

We fixed 190 pay. Now lets go back and fix the gap they thought they could pocket for more bonuses, Park Avenue apartments, and stupid toys.

We may not be able to get back the health insurance they promised but we can sure as hell try to back a little of the "prosperity" they talked about in those hyped up interviews.

My interpretation (and I'm one half of the contract equation) is that 3A was meant to protect me from pay stagnation. What if Jetblue decided one day that it didn't want so many 12+ year pilots around anymore and some newer, cheaper blood was in order? Hey, let's freeze the pay at the top of the scale and do what we need to, to get people in the door......which is essentially what happened.

My interpretation is LLBLs interpretation and it is perfectly reasonable.

Greed my ass. You bunch of smurfs. Go have a BoB party.

 

[PsubS]

Shade, I feel your pain. The company said a lot of things that did not come true. But your justification simply sounds as if you are attempting to "get back" at the company, to borrow another's words.

But I ask again....is there anyone out there who does not believe that the intent of 3a was simply to protect the new hires?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

But I ask again....is there anyone out there who does not believe that the intent of 3a was simply to protect the new hires?

Actually, I haven't given it that much thought (I'm reading it as it is written). I am not trying to interpret the intent because I couldn't care what it is/was.

But MY intent is not to punish the company, or get back at the company, or to screw the company. I just don't have that much emotional attachment to JetBlue. It's a business for God's sake. Not my soulmate.

 

[Splert]

But I ask again....is there anyone out there who does not believe that the intent of 3a was simply to protect the new hires?

Our Senior VP of Being a Brother from a Different Mother disagrees with you.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Our Senior VP of Being a Brother from a Different Mother disagrees with you.

Hey, you're right. I forgot that email.

 

[shadesofBS]

Shade, I feel your pain. The company said a lot of things that did not come true. But your justification simply sounds as if you are attempting to "get back" at the company, to borrow another's words.

But I ask again....is there anyone out there who does not believe that the intent of 3a was simply to protect the new hires?

I truly believe that 3a was meant to protect all of us, not just the new hires.

 

[PsubS]

Spert, you are right!

A FlightInfo first....I was wrong about the intent...and I admit it under my own free will...

 

[J32driver]

You 3A'ers are on crack.

Ask yourself what "Base Salary" means. It doesn't mean... 1 specific longevity for 1 specific seat. It means a "pay table" encompassing all seats and all longevity. You and the new hire were both offered an amended PEA with identical pay tables.... or base salary. There is no way an arbitrator/mediator is going to agree 3A was violated and award you guys the $60,000 you think you have coming!

This is about revenge. Revenge for being told, no we aren't going to keep the trigger at 70 hours. So the BOB decided to try and force the pay raises for bus captains from a different angle. 3A.

This whole thing is comical to watch. A BOB started this and got a handful of the most militant Union types to bite and build some momentum. Now the BOB's want to blame the union folks. When the reality is the vast majority of the pro-Union types realize this whole thing is bogus!

 

[Bavarian Chef]

It doesn't mean... 1 specific longevity for 1 specific seat. It means a "pay table" encompassing all seats and all longevity. You and the new hire were both offered an amended PEA with identical pay tables.... or base salary.

Please email this to the attorney so they can drop the whole shebang.

 

[bluesideup340]

Keep in mind what Theodore Roosevelt had to say about lawyers.

"A man who never graduated from school might steal from a freight car. But a man who attends college and graduates as a lawyer might steal the whole railroad."
http://www.quoteland.com/tellafriend/index.asp?QUOTE_ID=4824

 

[J32driver]

Please email this to the attorney so they can drop the whole shebang.

Better yet, why don't YOU copy it, email it to your attorney and see what his response is!

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Better yet, why don't YOU copy it, email it to your attorney and see what his response is!

Getting right on it.

 

[V2+10]

I just don't have that much emotional attachment to JetBlue. It's a business for God's sake. Not my soulmate.

That's sad Chef. Please remember that we are talking about your career...your paycheck if you will. JetBlue may not be your soulmate but it does pay your bills. Maybe you don't rely on JetBlue for your everyday needs as I see you have an extensive military background but allot of people including myself do. Military pension maybe? From the aircraft that you have flown I can only assume that this is your first airline but I may be wrong.

With a civilian background (no military pension) and after 3 airlines that include 2 bankruptcies I have finally found an airline in JB that treats and pays me well. I want to retire here. Sure there could be improvements and that will always be the case. Nothing is perfect but this is far from bad...trust me...I've seen bad.

I know it's the unpopular thing to say, but a little more "emotional attachment" and pride in your company may not be such a bad thing...for all of us.

 

[Sailpilot]

That's sad Chef. Please remember that we are talking about your career...your paycheck if you will. JetBlue may not be your soulmate but it does pay your bills. Maybe you don't rely on JetBlue for your everyday needs as I see you have an extensive military background but allot of people including myself do. Military pension maybe? From the aircraft that you have flown I can only assume that this is your first airline but I may be wrong.

With a civilian background (no military pension) and after 3 airlines that include 2 bankruptcies I have finally found an airline in JB that treats and pays me well. I want to retire here. Sure there could be improvements and that will always be the case. Nothing is perfect but this is far from bad...trust me...I've seen bad.

I know it's the unpopular thing to say, but a little more "emotional attachment" and pride in your company may not be such a bad thing...for all of us.

Holy Sh!t, you are soooo Jetblue! Reading this made me all "New-Hirish". Man can you give the next BS pilot meeting in T5? I'm so inspired... NOT.

Jetblue has never paid my Bills. I paid my bills with money EARNED from flying aircraft with hundreds of passengers aboard.

Please get off your knees. Wipe your mouth of that good blue love your soulmate gave you.

Again, If I was overpaid for 2-3 years... Jetblue would be all over me holding me to my contractual payrate. It's a contract, they wrote it, I signed it. Oh ya, they signed it also...

 

[Bavarian Chef]

That's sad Chef. Please remember that we are talking about your career...your paycheck if you will. JetBlue may not be your soulmate but it does pay your bills. Maybe you don't rely on JetBlue for your everyday needs as I see you have an extensive military background but allot of people including myself do. Military pension maybe? From the aircraft that you have flown I can only assume that this is your first airline but I may be wrong.

With a civilian background (no military pension) and after 3 airlines that include 2 bankruptcies I have finally found an airline in JB that treats and pays me well. I want to retire here. Sure there could be improvements and that will always be the case. Nothing is perfect but this is far from bad...trust me...I've seen bad.

I know it's the unpopular thing to say, but a little more "emotional attachment" and pride in your company may not be such a bad thing...for all of us.

Now that's some good stuff.

No, no military pension (after I retire in the reserves, I will get one at age 60). No, no military healthcare (I'm UHC from the company). Yes, first airline. Last airline? You betcha.

If I lost this job tomorrow, honestly, I don't think I would miss it (I sure as hell wouldn't miss these paychecks). And I sure as hell wouldn't miss cleaning airplanes. Something tells me you wouldn't.

Hey wait a minute, where did I ever say JB was bad? I just said I had no emotional attachment to JB, no more than JB has to me, one of 2000 pilots and 12000 employ ... er, ahem, crewmembers.

Flying for JB is not my calling. It's just what I do. For now.

 

[V2+10]

Flying for JB is not my calling. It's just what I do. For now.

See ya, good luck and best wishes.

 

[V2+10]

Holy Sh!t, you are soooo Jetblue!

Yep..and proud of it.

 

[V2+10]

Please get off your knees. Wipe your mouth of that good blue love your soulmate gave you.

Oh wise one. You can thank Chef for the original "soulmate" reference.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Let me guess, you were a "No" voter?

Yep..and proud of it.

 

[Indy refugee]

Yep, a law firm was willing to work for us because of a "nebulously worded sentence".

I'm no legal expert, but my gut feeling is that they are onboard because they see the potential upside as being very real, i.e. this sentence isn't as nebulous as you make it out to be.

Who knows. Only time will tell.

My guess is they are involved because the attorney is BANGING Mona's sister!!

 

[V2+10]

Let me guess, you were a "No" voter?

Just one of many. Thanks for asking.

 

[linepilot]

Yep..and proud of it.

:::: violins, softly playing in the background as V2+10s health insurance is gutted for executive bonuses :::::

 

[bluesideup340]

:::: violins, softly playing in the background as V2+10s health insurance is gutted for executive bonuses :::::

linepilot
Do you support Obama's health inssurance reform?

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Yeah, there were also quite a few Frontier guys who were happy they didn't go to Southwest too. :nuts:

Just one of many. Thanks for asking.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

My guess is they are involved because the attorney is BANGING Mona's sister!!

Mona has a sister? Eww. Now would that make Mona an older brother or older sister?

 

[bluesideup340]

Yep, a law firm was willing to work for us because of a "nebulously worded sentence".

I'm no legal expert, but my gut feeling is that they are onboard because they see the potential upside as being very real, i.e. this sentence isn't as nebulous as you make it out to be.

Who knows. Only time will tell.

What is the upside the law firm see?
Here are some facts to consider.
Depending on the defendant's attitude, a class action may take many times longer or quite a bit shorter than individual cases. Some drag on for 10 years, while others settle in six months. The usual order of events is that after a complaint is filed, the parties do limited investigation into whether the action fits the class action requirements. The plaintiffs then ask the court for class certification. If the court says yes, there may be more investigation or the case may settle. If the court says no, the case will proceed only for the few individuals named as plaintiffs in the complaint and not for the rest of the group.
The vast majority of class action cases are settled if they are certified or if the defendant believes they will be. The class members are notified of the proposed settlement and given an opportunity to join in or object to its terms. Some types of class actions require that you send in an "opt-in" form to join. For others, you're in if you do nothing. After the class members respond to the proposed settlement, a court determines whether the settlement is fair and reasonable.
In recent years, some politicians and legal pundits have become increasingly vehement in their criticism of plaintiffs' attorneys who specialize in class actions, because of the many highly publicized settlements that seem to result in a windfall for the attorneys and little benefit for the harmed plaintiffs. Attorney's fees for class actions are usually a percentage of the common fund set up to compensate the class. The lawyers sometimes walk away with millions of dollars in fees, while individual class members receive small amounts or coupons. It is misleading, however, to compare the lawyer's fees to the individual recoveries in class actions, because the lawyer represents the whole class. In judging fairness, courts look at the relationship of the fee to the value of the overall recovery.
On the other hand, some attorneys may overreach and rush into a settlement that isn't good for the class. Overworked courts sometimes do not examine class settlements closely enough. Here are some things to look for in the fine print when you are reviewing a class settlement:

• Does the notice tell the amount of the attorney's fee or its percentage of the overall settlement? Nondisclosure is a red flag.
• Has the defendant agreed not to challenge class counsel's attorney's fees? Such "clear sailing" agreements are common, but combined with other factors may signal that the defendant is getting a better deal than the class.
• Did the settlement come fast on the heels of the complaint being filed, with little or no investigation by class counsel? The notice should summarize the investigation.
• Is the release of claims broader than the wrongdoings claimed in the original lawsuit? For example, if the action only covered one of the company's products, you shouldn't have to release all claims against the company in the settlement.
• Does the class member get any real benefit from the settlement? Sometimes benefits are intangible but worthwhile, such as when a company agrees to stop polluting. But if the complaint claimed money damages, class members should be wary of settlements in which only the lawyers get paid. "Coupon settlements" for money off the next purchase are often criticized, but can be valuable if the coupon gives a good discount on a desired product.

The main benefit of class actions is that they level the playing field when individuals join together to take on a big company. The main danger is that if class actions are handled irresponsibly, class members can lose more than they gain.