Attention Former Jetblue Pilots

[clickclickboom]

Chef some of these replies have to be flamebait because no rational human being could actually have that mentality.

Here is another angle on this contract that WAS written by management and agreed to by pilots

Lets just say that the company OVERPAID you for some reason or another for three years and as a senior FO on the bus you were overpaid $35,000-$40,000. Maybe it was an oversight maybe an error. If they discovered that error do you think that the comapny would just let it slide because expecting your reimbursement was greedy?


Absa********************inglutely you would be dragged out on the carpet and gutted on top of the altar and fired if for some reason you didnt get canned your pay would immediately be gutted for repayment.

I didnt sign YET but I can guarantee you that if the comapny expects me to uphold my side of the contract then they to are accountable.

 

[PsubS]

A loophole in a legally binding contract between two parties, one of which had no say in its creation -- wow.

Ahh, good. Then we both agree that this is a loophole.

Now all we are debating is the motivation behind your filing. Again, I support your right to file for a judgement...I just don't agree with the action.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Ahh, good. Then we both agree that this is a loophole.

Now all we are debating is the motivation behind your filing. Again, I support your right to file for a judgement...I just don't agree with the action.

Huh? Did I agree? Nope.

Motivation? How do you know my motivation? And why should you care? I have my own individual contract with JetBlue. Do you doubt the motivation of all our management pilots working for 90 hour guarantees on flex time so they can avoid crappy lines or CA reserve on the bus?

Hell no! They just negotiated a better contract.

I'm not debating anything.

 

[PsubS]

Huh? Did I agree? Nope.

Motivation? How do you know my motivation? And why should you care?

Gee, you are all over the place, Chef...

First you describe the loophole as a binding contract between two parties, one of which...well, you know the rest. You wrote it.

Then you say that you don't agree with what you wrote.

Sorry...I guess I don't get your point.

 

[murano]

I threw out my old JetBlue "contract" a while ago. Someone please enlighten me what section 3A was about? And can we be a little more vague about this please? What exactly are you guys fighting for here?

 

[Splert]

Gotta agree with the greed angle. I do find it ironic however that the majority of pilots pushing this issue forward were supporters of JBPA. Sorry, but this whole issue reeks of revenge for an election lost...by a wide margin. Get over it.

Funny, the two WRC members who retained the law firm are BoBs.

Nice try...

 

[Splert]

I threw out my old JetBlue "contract" a while ago. Someone please enlighten me what section 3A was about? And can we be a little more vague about this please? What exactly are you guys fighting for here?

Basically when the company gave raises to newly hired pilots of XX.X% percentage the contact either does or does not require (depends who you ask) all pilots base rate to be raised by the same percentage.

Yikes...

 

[murano]

You mean the raise you guys just got a few months ago? How would this have anything to do with me (a pilot who left Jetblue in 2007)?

 

[bluesideup340]

Here is what the section says:

3a.
Base Salary. The Pilot will be compensated as set forth in the Addendum A of this Agreement which is incorporated herein by reference. If at any time during the life of this Agreement the Airline increases the base salary it pays to newly-hired pilots performing duties either as Captain or First Officers, the Pilot’s base salary shall be adjusted be the same percentage as the increase in base salary.

 

[linepilot]

You mean the raise you guys just got a few months ago? How would this have anything to do with me (a pilot who left Jetblue in 2007)?

They gave a 26% raise to first year pilots in early 2007 and they didn't adjust the rest of the pay scales.

The way I understand it, if you were on anything other than first year pay, you are eligible.

You need to e-mail Cassamento for a password to the site. It explains everything in great detail.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Gee, you are all over the place, Chef...

First you describe the loophole as a binding contract between two parties, one of which...well, you know the rest. You wrote it.

Then you say that you don't agree with what you wrote.

Sorry...I guess I don't get your point.

Whatever you say. Good luck in the Left Seat.

 

[Dogwood]

It is not greed. It is lost wages. Lost wages due to inflation. Lost wages for no pay raises from 2001-2007 and minor ones after that. A retro pay raise of 26% would correct for the 22-24% inflation and then give us enough for another year. It is not greed, it is what we were promised from the beginning (but they failed to deliver)

Just my opinion.......

FNG

FNG,

You've just shown you true colors. This is about getting back at the company.

Question...

Do you honestly feel that raising the pay of everyone just because the new hire pay was raised, was the true intent of this language?

Honest answer, now. Don't answer just based on what the wording appears to say.

Naturally the answer is no.

This was not the intent of the company, nor was it your understanding at the time you signed the agreement.

The company owes you nothing, and in arbitration will be ruled accordingly.

 

[PsubS]

Do you honestly feel that raising the pay of everyone just because the new hire pay was raised, was the true intent of this language?

Dogwood, I've asked that very same question and cannot get a straight answer. It seems that the "I'm getting mine because the company has screwed me in the past" attitude is prevalent.

To be completely fair, some pilots strongly believe that this is just a legitimate contract dispute, which is-at it's basest form-correct. Certainly the issue is about contract wording.

Press on with the mediation/arbitration. That's your right guys.

Just don't expect me to sit back and support your chest thumping in cyberspace.

 

[PsubS]

Whatever you say. Good luck in the Left Seat.

Thank you. I earned it by way of my reported old age and aforementioned greatly admired testicles.

 

[shadesofBS]

FNG,

You've just shown you true colors. This is about getting back at the company.

Question...

Do you honestly feel that raising the pay of everyone just because the new hire pay was raised, was the true intent of this language?

Honest answer, now. Don't answer just based on what the wording appears to say.

Naturally the answer is no.

This was not the intent of the company, nor was it your understanding at the time you signed the agreement.

The company owes you nothing, and in arbitration will be ruled accordingly.

I don't know how the company interprets 3A but I ABSOLUTELY view the intent of 3A as protection from the following scenario:

Being sold during your interview on a set of assumptions about pay and benefits then finding (after you've invested several years of service) that they would rather invest elsewhere.

We TOLD them those 190 rates were too low to begin with but it was just too much of a temptation for Jetblue to say, "we need to let the airplane prove itself" and then spend the next three years "fixing" those pay rates while they neglected the rest of us - which I firmly believe was their intention all along.

I feel absolutely justified in pursuing recovery in this case because Jetblue said one thing and did another. It appears that my contract has protection from what I viewed as a con job the day those 190s were announced.

We fixed 190 pay. Now lets go back and fix the gap they thought they could pocket for more bonuses, Park Avenue apartments, and stupid toys.

We may not be able to get back the health insurance they promised but we can sure as hell try to back a little of the "prosperity" they talked about in those hyped up interviews.

My interpretation (and I'm one half of the contract equation) is that 3A was meant to protect me from pay stagnation. What if Jetblue decided one day that it didn't want so many 12+ year pilots around anymore and some newer, cheaper blood was in order? Hey, let's freeze the pay at the top of the scale and do what we need to, to get people in the door......which is essentially what happened.

My interpretation is LLBLs interpretation and it is perfectly reasonable.

Greed my ass. You bunch of smurfs. Go have a BoB party.

 

[PsubS]

Shade, I feel your pain. The company said a lot of things that did not come true. But your justification simply sounds as if you are attempting to "get back" at the company, to borrow another's words.

But I ask again....is there anyone out there who does not believe that the intent of 3a was simply to protect the new hires?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

But I ask again....is there anyone out there who does not believe that the intent of 3a was simply to protect the new hires?

Actually, I haven't given it that much thought (I'm reading it as it is written). I am not trying to interpret the intent because I couldn't care what it is/was.

But MY intent is not to punish the company, or get back at the company, or to screw the company. I just don't have that much emotional attachment to JetBlue. It's a business for God's sake. Not my soulmate.

 

[Splert]

But I ask again....is there anyone out there who does not believe that the intent of 3a was simply to protect the new hires?

Our Senior VP of Being a Brother from a Different Mother disagrees with you.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Our Senior VP of Being a Brother from a Different Mother disagrees with you.

Hey, you're right. I forgot that email.

 

[shadesofBS]

Shade, I feel your pain. The company said a lot of things that did not come true. But your justification simply sounds as if you are attempting to "get back" at the company, to borrow another's words.

But I ask again....is there anyone out there who does not believe that the intent of 3a was simply to protect the new hires?

I truly believe that 3a was meant to protect all of us, not just the new hires.