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ATSB Says No To Spirit/National

flx757

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Spirit Airlines says loan application denied


Wednesday August 14, 8:48 PM EDT

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla., Aug 14 (Reuters) - Spirit Airlines said on Wednesday the Airline Transportation Stabilization Board (ATSB) did not approve Spirit's $60 million loan application by a 2-1 vote.

"While we were disappointed in the ATSB's decision, we are very confident in the viability of our company and the business plan that we have developed to carry us forward," said Jacob Schorr, chief executive of the privately held airline. "The owners of Spirit Airlines have stood by this company and my partners and I will continue to do so."

The federal government on Wednesday rejected an application by National Airlines Inc. for a $50.5 million loan guarantee, the board that administers the bailout program said.

The ATSB, established after the Sept. 11 attacks to help airlines struggling financially, said National did not provide a reasonable assurance that it would be able to repay any new financing. The Las Vegas-based airline hoped to use the federal guarantee to back $60 million in private financing.
 

fly26

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Why the hell did they even create the ATSB in the first place! It's supposed to be for companies that were unable to otherwise get financing after Sept 11.
Vanguard - rejected.
Spirit - rejected.
National - rejected.

No disrespect to UsAir or AWA guys, but those two companies are not exactly the most stable operations either.

It seems pretty clear that the ATSB was created to assist MAJOR airlines only. And even then, you have to sell your soul.
 

enigma

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I imagine that the government looked at Spirit and decided that we were doing well enough to get by without the guarantee. For that matter, if Spirit can't make it with the industries lowest paid MD80 pilots, no government loan guarantee is going make a difference. It's not something that I normally brag about, but the pilot staff at NK makes about the same as a well paid RJ crew. We are just now beginning contract negotiations and all hope to make some headway on the pay raise issue. Wish us luck, because the pay scales that are negotiated by Spirit, AirTran, etc, may well become industry standard if most of the established majors fail.

regards
8N
 

charterpuke

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fly26:

I think that AWA is far more stable than any of the above mentioned airlines. In fact, I have been hearing that AWA is doing better than most of the other majors. They are almost up to a full pre 9/11 schedule and all of their pilots have been recalled. I think they even announced the addition of some new cities.
 

DC9stick

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charterpuke said:
fly26:

I think that AWA is far more stable than any of the above mentioned airlines. In fact, I have been hearing that AWA is doing better than most of the other majors. They are almost up to a full pre 9/11 schedule and all of their pilots have been recalled. I think they even announced the addition of some new cities.
Majors is the word here. Spirit recalled all of thier pilots by March HAS hired two classes this summer and HAS expanded to new destinations. More airplanes ARE coming and the company is NOT on the verge of bankruptcy.
 

checkessential

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It's not something that I normally brag about, but the pilot staff at NK makes about the same as a well paid RJ crew. We are just now beginning contract negotiations and all hope to make some headway on the pay raise issue. Wish us luck, because the pay scales that are negotiated by Spirit, AirTran, etc, may well become industry standard if most of the established majors fail.
Gee, could someone please explain this logic? I understand that you should earn as much as any RJ crew out there. Plus some for MD-80 ego. But on top of that, if your carrier is going down the drain, your new pay scale should reflect your desire to see it off.
Did I get it right? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I better make a move if all the major airlines will fall to a brilliant plan like this!
 

enigma

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HUH?

checkessential said:


Gee, could someone please explain this logic? I understand that you should earn as much as any RJ crew out there. Plus some for MD-80 ego. But on top of that, if your carrier is going down the drain, your new pay scale should reflect your desire to see it off.
Did I get it right? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I better make a move if all the major airlines will fall to a brilliant plan like this!
Well I just erased my first response. I'm going to try hard and not be sarcastic on this one.

First, our MD80's carry 164 passengers, and therefore produce over three times the revenue of the average RJ. It's a well accepted concept that pilots get paid based upon the amount of revenue that the aircraft they fly generate. Thats why the senior pilots bid 777 international. Not much mystery there. So what are you missing?

Second, what the **** makes you think that Spirit is going down the drain?

If you have some inside info, send me a PM, I'll be glad to pay good money for the truth.

With that said, Spirit is privately held and has :RECALLED ALL FURLOUGHED PILOTS, HIRED THREE NEW CLASSES OF PILOTS, UPGRADED THREE NEW CLASSES OF CAPTAINS, TAKEN DELIVERY OF THREE ADDITIONAL MD80'S, ADDED TWO NEW DESTINATIONS, UPGRADED THE AUTOMATION OF OPERATIONS, ETC, ETC, ETC. All since 9/11. All with private funds. (no screwed stockholders)
Does that sound like "going down the drain"?

Next time, ask questions before you make assumptions.

As for the major comparison, Spirit is not a major. We'd have to get a one hundred percent pay raise just to make fifty percent of what the big three pay their DC9 pilots.

yes, maybe you'd better make a move

enigma

BTW, if it had anything to do with ego I'd still be flying around billionaires in a Lear60.


show me the money, this ain't no hobby
 

NYRANGERS

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Re: HUH?

enigma said:


show me the money, this ain't no hobby

Amen!!!!! There is a point when the job is just not worth doing. I could probably run an airline if I didn't have to pay my employees.
 

Tim47SIP

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enigma

"With that said, Spirit is privately held and has :RECALLED ALL FURLOUGHED PILOTS, HIRED THREE NEW CLASSES OF PILOTS, UPGRADED THREE NEW CLASSES OF CAPTAINS, TAKEN DELIVERY OF THREE ADDITIONAL MD80'S, ADDED TWO NEW DESTINATIONS, UPGRADED THE AUTOMATION OF OPERATIONS, ETC, ETC, ETC. All since 9/11. All with private funds. (no screwed stockholders) "

Ouch, that was loud!
If this is true, then why did Spirit apply for the loan in the first place? The loan is to be used for recovery efforts, not standard financing to expand, although expansion could be a result. I think the company is not as 100% rosey as you portray it to be, but I do hope you are right. The last thing we need to see now is another carrier going down the tubes and more pilots on furlough. Good luck to you guys!
 

enigma

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Re: enigma

Tim47SIP said:
"With that said, Spirit is privately held and has :RECALLED ALL FURLOUGHED PILOTS, HIRED THREE NEW CLASSES OF PILOTS, UPGRADED THREE NEW CLASSES OF CAPTAINS, TAKEN DELIVERY OF THREE ADDITIONAL MD80'S, ADDED TWO NEW DESTINATIONS, UPGRADED THE AUTOMATION OF OPERATIONS, ETC, ETC, ETC. All since 9/11. All with private funds. (no screwed stockholders) "

Ouch, that was loud!
If this is true, then why did Spirit apply for the loan in the first place? The loan is to be used for recovery efforts, not standard financing to expand, although expansion could be a result. I think the company is not as 100% rosey as you portray it to be, but I do hope you are right. The last thing we need to see now is another carrier going down the tubes and more pilots on furlough. Good luck to you guys!
It was meant to be loud. As I get older, I get less tolerant of ignorance.

No one except the owners, knows why Spirit applied for the loan. My suspicion is that they were looking for guaranteed expansion money. If that was the case, they should have been turned down.

I'm not trying to portray the company as "rosey", I am arguing against a previous posters assertion that Spirit is "going down the drain".

Here are a few more pieces of evidence, to help support my defence. One. Spirits load factor is at or above pre 9/11 levels. Spirit is not (9/11/02 withstanding, which by the way was a brilliant marketing move) giving away our seats like the majors are doing in order to obtain that load factor. Our seats were cheap before 9/11.
Two. Spirit is upgrading the interiors of our MD80's, and repainting the aircraft. These expenditures are being made with money generated by operations, or from the owners own pockets.

When I stir all of these factors into the pot, along with this reasoning...successful businessmen(which our owners are) don't use their own money foolishly...I come to the conclusion that Spirit is, at worst, breaking even. They only management teams who throw good money after bad are the managers of public companies who are burning someone elses money.

If you analyze the situation differently let me know.

regards, and Thanks for the good wishes.
8N
 

frenchy

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We asked for the cash because we as well as every airlines , lost some money after 9/11 and we want it back.
We will keep growing without it , but it would be unfair that the majors would recover their loss and not the nationals .
It is a fact that the big ones wanted to restructure before 9/11, and they have the perfect excuse now.
It would show once again the power of the lobbyist in Wa, and their ability to bend over.
Unfortunately we leave in a time where politic is involve in every aspect of our life and we as private citizens have no hold on it which is contrary of the constitution.
Anyway enough moaning and back to the drawing board .
 

flx757

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frenchy said:
We asked for the cash because we as well as every airlines , lost some money after 9/11 and we want it back.
This is one of the most common misconceptions about the ATSB loan guarantees. It is not cash...it is not gov't money...it is not a gov't loan. It is a gov't backed loan guarantee. The airlines still seek capital from normal, private sources, and the gov't agrees to back the loans for whatever amount the airlines apply for. Among the things they look for when evaluating the applictions are the company's business plan and the likelihood that they will be able to repay. In the case of National and Vanguard, it was their unlikely ability to repay that was the main reason for the denial of their applications.

IMO, Spirit's business plan is viable enough that they can probably survive without these guarantees.
 

Dep676

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I think it's just a case of who has their lips on someone's A$$ more. Let the big ones go down in flames and the smaller airlines rise up and takeover. The smaller airlines seem to have their heads on straight anyway. Let's see like SWA and Jetblue.
 

checkessential

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Frankly, if Spirit pilots feel they should earn more, then they should go for it. Employees will always fight for every penny they earn. Frankly I'm tired of hearing how regional pilots are low class, and poor, and screwing up the industry. So, enigma, why not I say that we unfortunate RJ pilots make about as much as a well paid Spirit crew. That's something that I wouldn't brag about either.

As for the guy with the gun, I believe that your intelligence and the caliber of that gun, are about equal.
 

enigma

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HUH? Part Deaux

checkessential said:
Frankly, if Spirit pilots feel they should earn more, then they should go for it. Employees will always fight for every penny they earn. Frankly I'm tired of hearing how regional pilots are low class, and poor, and screwing up the industry. So, enigma, why not I say that we unfortunate RJ pilots make about as much as a well paid Spirit crew. That's something that I wouldn't brag about either.

As for the guy with the gun, I believe that your intelligence and the caliber of that gun, are about equal.
I just have to ask. Is American English your native tongue? If so, did you have trouble in reading comprehension class?

Just what part of "WELL PAID RJ crew" did you take as an insult? Get the chip off of your shoulder and grow up.


BTW, I'm still waiting for a cogent defense of your first post in the string.

another HUH? what in the world are you talking about when you talk about the guy with the gun.

another BTW. You're welcome to the last word between us. Most everything you say just makes me look good. (that ego has nothing to do with flying a beat-up old Douglas, it's just me)
 
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