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ATP written (still current?)

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That's a 10-4 good buddy
Nov 29, 2001
Any 135 guys know if yout ATP written stays (endifinately) current while you are working under part 135 rules? I read the reg. on this, and I'm still confused. Anyone with past experience on this, let me know.

Your knowledge report doesn't stay current. However, you may take the practical test with an expired knowledge report for the ATP, so long as you are employed by a certificate holder under Parts 121, 125, or 135, and you have completed the PIC qualification training program for your employer.

If you are assigned as SIC, but have completed the PIC qualification training program, this applies. The knowledge report may be used, even though expired...so long as you remain employed by the certificate holder. You do not need to be a captain or pilot in command.

If you are assigned as SIC and have not completed the PIC qualification training program for your company, this does not apply. The knowledge report may not be used once expired.
One other note - you must have been employed with the carrier continuously from the day you take the test. Any breaks in employment and the situation described above doesn't apply.

You sure about that Hal? The way I read the reg it simply states that you can take the test with an expired report if you are employed by a 135, 121, etc. carrier at the time of the *practical* test. It doesn't seem to say anything about when you took the knowledge test. Anyone care to comment?
I disagree with Hal. There is no reference to any breaks in employment. As long as you are employed by a 135 or 121 carrier as Avbug stated you can take the test with an expired knowledge test report
current test

The test must be valid on the first day of employment and remains valid as long as the employee remains employed at the same Part 135 or 121 carrier. The part 135 test can also be used for a part 121 ATP. We had a DA-20 F/O who took the 135 ATP written, but bid the DC-9 before making Captain, 3 years later he became a Captain on the DC-9 and used his part 135 ATP written. FAA said OK.
Clear as mud...

I'm hoping that one of you who replied to the post will check it again...

I took the ATP written before I was hired by the company. The written will be no longer current after june. I am still employed by the same company and am PIC for an aircraft the doesn't require an ATP.

1. If I went somewhere else to get my ATP practical (ALL ATP's) after june, would they accept the non-current written?

2. If I upgrade to an aircraft that requires an ATP through the company and compleate the qualification training program, then the non-current ATP written can be used? (I think that's a YES)

Thanks again for the previous posts. Hopefully someone can clear up these details for me.
And what about it staying legit for furloughed guys? I took my ATP written while at Lakes. It was still valid when I went to Air Willy...but then I was furloughed. It sounds like when I get recalled, I can use the expired knowledge test when I upgrade...just want to clarify this.
There appears to be some confusion on this issue. The purpose of 61.39(b) is to recognize the role of ongoing employment training while working under a certificate holder...for whom the ATP is required when acting as PIC.

The rule allows an individual who has a current knowledge report when hired, to use that report when it expires...so long as the employee is still employed with that same employer. The employment must be continuous. An employee on furlough is no longer employed (despite allowances for seniority numbers, etc). An employee on furlough is not granted ongoing proficiency or currency training, checkrides, line checks, etc. A furloughed employee is no longer employed by the certificate holder, and does not enjoy the protections with respect to the knowledge report, as outlined in 61.39(b).

If at any time an employee loses his or her employment, or changes to a different certificate holder, the test may no longer be used. A current test result must be obtained.

One way to think of it is that your employer is "keeping your results alive" by keeping you employed. If you are let go, furloughed, quit, change to a different operator, etc, your benifit ceases. You must have a new test result.

If it's been two years, you should probably study and retake the test anyway. There is nothing wrong with study, and from a practical point of view, interviews are often molded around the ATP written test in many respects. Many professionals keep a copy of the ATP written study guides available and current, even though they have their ATP already.

To answer your question, if you had a current knowledge test report when hired, and it has expired during the course of your employment, but you are still employed by the same certificate holder, then yes, you may use the report. You may use it during upgrade training within the company if you are granted an ATP ride in conjunction with your type or upgrade training (a paperwork issue largely, but a necessary formality). You may use it at a private vendor, such as ALL ATP's.

If you use an outside vendor, you must have completed the pilot-in-command qualifcation program established by your company. Again, if you are a SIC but have completed this training program, you may use the expired results. If you are an SIC but have not completed this program, you may not.

Simply being employed by the certificate holder does NOT provide protection for your knowledge exam report. 61.39(b)(1)(i) specifically identifies completion of the company pilot-in-command aircraft qualification training program. Your training records must reflect this.

If you take your practical test with a vendor, you will need verification of continuous and ongoing employment under 121, 125, or 135. This documentation should accompany your 8710 on application. You may use various forms of evidence, from a letter on company letterhead attesting to your employment, to pay stubs, to copies of training records or other such documentation. You may also use your logbook.

As stated above, you must not only show evidence of employment, but of completion of the certificate holder's PIC aircraft qualification training program. If you meet these criteria and can show them satisfactorily, then you may use the expired report. If not, then the report will do no good.

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