ATP Seminole Crash

[Long Time Gone]

For a while at Airline Training Academy, we were told that we had to. The reason was that there was nothing in the regs that stated that you had to be at the controls (for instrument flight in VMC, anyway). This was also the case for "Air Stage II" flights, where 2 Comm Multi students went out on long x/c flights for time building purposes and a MEI was supposed to be in the backseat observing "airline quality procedures" and also for insurance purposes. We said h*ll no. If something were to happen on that flight, it would be on my record even though I was sitting in the backseat. Why? Because I was instructing. We were told that we could also log it.......try explaining that to an interview board.

 

[low-key]

Back seat instructing?? Thats about the stupidest thing i have heard since a student told me once that you could spray PAM on the wings to keep ice off......

 

[bigD]

What a crock of sh!t. CFI in the back....why does this crap always seem to be going on in Florida!?

Although really, I'm not an MEI, but I'd like to think that I could perform a Vmc demo without you guys having to read about it afterwards.

Regardless, we still don't know that was the cause...

 

[Diesel]

how in the world do you instruct from the back seat? It's not really instructing if you have to reach over two people to correct a mistake made by someone your supposed to be teaching. That's just wrong.

 

[tarheel87]

No backseat instructing!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have my doubts about the instructing from the backseat story. There was no reason for that to occur with the two students signed up for different check rides. SO IF YOU DON"T KNOW STOP THAT GOSSIP!!!!!!!

 

[Timebuilder]

Although really, I'm not an MEI, but I'd like to think that I could perform a Vmc demo without you guys having to read about it afterwards.

A safe Vmc demo isn't difficult, but I would never consider doing that type of instruction from a position where I could not take immediate action if I felt the demo was about to cross the line into the area of "dangerous".

It's just possible that neither of the front seat students knew that the first action needed to stop a Vmc roll is to pull the throttle(s) to idle, or that the beginning of the safe altitude for multi procedures is 3,000 feet. Without the ability to calmly take proper action, these teaching maneuvers can be dangerous, indeed.

Please, don't let this go by without learning from this tragedy.

 

[Timebuilder]

SO IF YOU DON"T KNOW STOP THAT GOSSIP!!!!!!!

I know that several places use this type of instruction in multiengine airplanes.

Don't do it.

 

[bigD]

It's just possible that neither of the front seat students knew that the first action needed to stop a Vmc roll is to pull the throttle(s) to idle

I guess hindsight is 20/20, but it's not as though neither pilot up front was multi rated.

 

[DawgPilot]

I did my ATP with All ATPs in Vegas. On one of my training flights an ATP student rode in the back to observe my ATP training flight the day before his CFII checkride. In my few days at their office I never heard/saw any "dual from the backseat." I think it is too early to draw conclusions - let the NTSB finish their investigation first.

Prayers for the families.

 

[Timebuilder]

guess hindsight is 20/20, but it's not as though neither pilot up front was multi rated.

There's a difference between multi rated and certified for multi instruction, of course.

Recognizing when things are about to go bad is a requirement of a good instructor. Being able to do something about it from where you are sitting is a matter of common sense.

My students never knew it, but when I taught the Vmc demo, I was ready to pull the power and lower the nose as soon as I thought I needed to. So, in order to prevent the need for hindsight, I was ready to stop something that I had read about far too many times.

This just may be another one of those times. I recommend we learn from it, that's all.