ATP Loging of PIC Flight time

[AV80R]

"A DA-50 is the type designator for the Falcon 50, Falcon 50EX, Falcon 900, Falcon 900B, Falcon 900C Falcon 900EX [don't ask me why]. So you can see another point of confusion as I only trained in the Falcon 900EX sim and recieved a type rating for all the above. Yes this A/C requires two pilots."

Thanks for clarifying that, I really should know that but I am just not up to date in the business jet aviation arena.

"What I mean by "command type rating" is I trained in the left hand seat and did the checkride in the left hand seat, whereas others did their checkride from the right hand seat [I don't think they actually recieved a type rating]."



I see now, it sounds like you were going for a regular type rating checkride, while the others were being checked out as co-pilots. At least that's what it looks like to me.


”As far as airlines are concerned I don't really want to go down that road, as I consider my present job much better than what I could get here in New Zealand with our [very small] airline industry”.



I see your point here too but then again things do change. One day you might want to think about airlines, maybe here in the US maybe NZ or somewhere else.


"When I am Pilot flying [manupulating the Aircraft] I will log PIC time, and when I am Pilot non flying [using the radio - keeping the captain company] I will log SIC time."



Sounds like that would be legal. When you fly, does anyone sign for the aircraft/release? If so, I would keep a copy of the signed release proving you signed for the aircraft thus you being the PIC as viewed by most airlines (just to be on the safe side and in case you ever decide to pursue the airline route in the future after all).



I still think a conservative approach "looks" much better. Besides, don't forget that just because you log it as SIC does not mean you cannot count it as PIC if the particular airline will approve of that. In other words, your log book might say 1,000PIC + 1,000SIC, yet the application to the particular airline, or company would say 2,000PIC with a spread sheet explaining the discrepancy. I have been helping with interviews at my previous airline and I have seen that approach many times.





Below is just one example of how specific airlines AND some businesses are when it comes to the meaning of PIC.



Southwest Airlines defines "Pilot in Command" as the Pilot responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight. This definition is taken from PART I of the FAR. Southwest Airlines further allows logging of PIC as follows: For an aircraft requiring a type rating: If both pilots are type rated, the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC. If only one pilot is type rated only that pilot may log PIC, regardless of seat position. For aircraft not requiring a type rating: Only the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC. For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot In Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged, as "Other Time" will not be considered. When converting taxi time a conversion factor of .3 or eighteen minutes, per leg/sortie should be used. These guidelines are imposed by Southwest Airlines for the purpose of standardizing the calculation of flight time.



Good luck with your flying!



Ps.
"...I think I've enough already..."

Everything is relative

 

[midlifeflyer]

AV8OR

So back to my original question - i'll answer it as I now understand it.

When I am Pilot flying [manupulating the Aircraft] I will log PIC time, and when I am Pilot non flying [using the radio - keeping the captain company] I will log SIC time.

Essentially correct, with one caveat. In order to log SIC time, the FAA regs insist that more than one pilot be required =by regulation=. So, even though you may be doing everything an SIC does and even if you are working with a company that always uses an SIC, unless the airplane is certificated with a multiple pilot requirement or it's the type of flight where a =regulation= requires more than one pilot, you can't log FAA SIC.

 

[JimNtexas]

People seem to want to make this so hard. It seems to me that a pilot should log FAR-1 ("real pic") in one column, SIC in two pilot airplanes in another column, and "sole manipulator PIC" time in a seperate column. Do this and all the logging problems go away.

For FAA purposes this pilot's pic time is the sum of the FAR-1 and sole manipulator columns. For purposes of applying for a job then the pilot can report only the appropriate total. If there is doubt about what an employer wants, then just report the FAR-1 PIC time and SIC time.

Maybe I'm just being simple minded.

 

[midlifeflyer]

People seem to want to make this so hard. It seems to me that a pilot should log FAR-1 ("real pic") in one column, SIC in two pilot airplanes in another column, and "sole manipulator PIC" time in a separate column. Do this and all the logging problems go away.

For FAA purposes this pilot's pic time is the sum of the FAR-1 and sole manipulator columns. For purposes of applying for a job then the pilot can report only the appropriate total. If there is doubt about what an employer wants, then just report the FAR-1 PIC time and SIC time.

I agree with your first paragraph but not your second.

FAA PIC (61.51 PIC) does =not= equal Part 1 PIC plus sole manipulator time. Remember that Part 1 PIC time is =not= automatically 61.51 PIC time. The simplest example is an IFR flight with an instrument rated pilot and a non-instrument pilot, who does all of the flying. Clearly, the instrument rated pilot is Part 1 PIC. But just as clearly he has =zero= FAA PIC (61.51) time. There are many more similar examples.

So you can't add them together. If a flight qualifies for both, it should be entered in both columns, so you have a running total of each type. Makes it much simpler.