ATP and type rating combo

[kelbill]

Military pukes, and yes I was one so I can say that, before you rush out and get your ATP, let me throw this out at you. You can get your ATP at the same time you get your 737 Type rating. What all the details involved are, I don't know, but my sim partner, friend, and military compadre got his at the same time while up at Higher Power in Dallas 5 years ago. If you are like me, you didn't know this, as I already had my ATP from a year earlier. If you are going to spring for an ATP course, why not go the extra mile and get the 737 type? Consider it a $1-2000 discount off your type expense. Of course if you have no desire to work at SWA, don't bother. But then don't complain when the hiring is slow elsewhere.

For many out there this might seem common knowledge, but for a former military guy like me who didn't know squat about civilian regs, types, certificates, etc, it was unknown at the time. Something to think about, although the information is 5 years old from my vantage point. And by the way, both my sim buddy and I are still diggin SWA after 5 years.

I hope this tidbit helps someone out.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

Yeah, that info is still correct. I'll be doing my ATP and Type at HPA in March. I ran my plan by the folks at HPA and they were very encouraging. I separate in the fall, so it's a big gamble, but still a very calculated risk. I have 2900 total, 1700 KC-135 PIC, and 800 combat (not that anyone except the USAF cares). Can anyone give me odds on getting an interview? I know one SWA capt and he tells me my chances are good.

 

[kelbill]

Don't officially know the odds, but assuming you get the type, you should get an interview by year end at least I would think. You have a decent number of PIC above the mins, and being military your PIC score is probably higher than a civilian's since mil folks fly quite a bit less in general (Except during war time of course, which I'm sure helped your logbook a lot). I would have EVERYTHING on my app completed already online, then before you drive away from HPA I would send in an update with the typerating included. Have EVERYTHING completed as far as forms/logbook/letters of rec for the interview, so when the call comes all you need to do is update your last few weeks/months of flying times and any changes in work history as far as squadron jobs go. Good luck, and of course remember to apply to AWA, JBLU, Frontier, Alaska and all the cargo types who are hiring. Getting that type will definitely increase your odds of interview and hire 10 fold, if not more. Good luck.

 

[mgg20]

I'm about to embark on my 10-year commitment as a USAF pilot. For those of you flying civ now or still in, do you have any suggestions? Any plane better than the other to prepare for airline flying? And also, how tempting is it to just stay in and do 20 years active duty? Are guard/reserve units near your dom easy to get into after you go ad? Thanks

 

[kelbill]

I'm about to embark on my 10-year commitment as a USAF pilot. For those of you flying civ now or still in, do you have any suggestions? Any plane better than the other to prepare for airline flying? And also, how tempting is it to just stay in and do 20 years active duty? Are guard/reserve units near your dom easy to get into after you go ad? Thanks

Been out about 5 years but can answer most of your questions with some experience to back it up.

1. If you joined up strictly to get free flight time, you went about it the hard way. If I were you, fly what you really want to, and the flight time and resume will follow. If all you dream of is airline time, go to a heavy obviously. But don't forget C-21s and C-12s, let alone C-9s if they still have them. You'll upgrade quicker probably, and be doing the same kind of stuff an airline/charter/commuter op does.

2. 20 years is tempting, but everyone has to decide for themselves. Everyone's career is different, even if you fly the same planes. Do what makes you happy. Military flying was much much more fun than airline flying, BUT, military life started to get old, especially when Slick Willy was in office. Serving your country is hard to beat, but so is being home with the wife and kids. I put in 14years and hated to leave, but couldn't see myself staying anymore.

3. Guard/Reserve jobs are like the airlines, feast or famine usually. If you are current in airframe and will move near a unit, your odds increase. If you know somebody, they increase even more. Guard/Reserve units are flying their butts off so are no longer as conducive to a stable life and flying club as before. Still beat the AD usually though. I would have gone that route had I been more informed. Lots of airline guys doing both, and they love it, but it wears on them, their finances, and family life. We are at war though, and so they do get a lot of satisfaction from serving.

Good luck and don't enter AD planning on leaving. Keep an open mind.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

Here's my 2 cents. At the risk of coming across as whining, it has been an incredibly tough time since 9/11 for active duty folks. The Guard and Reserve dudes have helped out a lot. But bottom line is we are AVERAGING over 225 days a year in the desert, living in tents, and flying our A$$e$ off! I am in a leadership position as a senior O-3 and I have been doing the 200+ days a year lifestyle for going on 4 years now. Make no mistake about it--you had better be patriotic and love serving because you will be doing a lot of it.

 

[kelbill]

L'il J Seinfeld,

Thanks for serving. Hope you didn't even remotely think I was dissing the AD. I know I sleep better at night knowing somebody out there has the cojones to stick it to the bad guys now that I have left the force. The Total Force is being stretched to its limits. That is one area I have to admit that I disagree on with Rumsfeld and the Prez. They need to pony up and admit that they can't squeeze any more blood out of the turnip.

Hasta, and fly safe. Tell your buds, especially the enlisted troops that we appreciate what they do.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

KB
Thanks for the props. The active duty personnel folks are crazy. We are letting enlisted aviators out of their enlistments early and are allowing pilots to Palace Chase to the Guard/Reserves well before our commitments are up. The Air Force has to downsize by something like 14k more before 30 Sept. It doesn't seem to make sense to me, but I am one of the guys taking advantage of the early out option. I love the Air Force, am extremely proud that I have served, but it's time to put my wife and 4 and 2 year old first.

No offense taken about AD. The Guard and Reserve are the best kept secret out there. In my opinion there is no better way to get trained and it is a great source of contacts in the civilian aviation world in general.

P.S. The turnip is definitely dry!

 

[mgg20]

Thanks for the info guys. I know that I can expect to spend alot of time away, but to me, serving my country and getting paid to fly is the best there is. I know you have to put up with alot of bs, but i'm really looking forward to it, and anything has to be better than flight instructing, right? Also, one more question. When you are in a heavy squadron, do they have Captain/FO style, or do you swith off? How does it work, upgrade to left seat? Thanks

 

[kelbill]

As far as heavy airlift goes, we had Copilots (FOs), First Pilots (Senior FOs who could fly in either seat with an Instructor, but rarely did), Aircraft Commanders (Captains), Instructor Pilots (Check Airman) and FLight Examiners (Designated Examiners). I was C-141, but I'm sure it is pretty much the same in the C5, C17, and even the tanker now. At SWA we trade off each leg unless the WX requires the captain to do the landing, in which case he/she gets another, but I usually get one back later. In mil airlift it was about the same, except for the fact that many pilots had never been to certain places/countries EVER and OFTEN, and so the left seater might hog a few legs in a row until he/she was comfortable about the operation. Remember, until recently with all the wartime ops and contingencies, military folks didn't fly nearly as much as the civilians did. We had our manning based on wartime, so overages abounded in peacetime. That was another reason I got out, but now flying is probably as much as you can stand it.

As for upgrade, it is usually based on hours in the right seat and completing a workbook upgrade process. It is also based on manning. If the unit has too many AC (aircraft commanders) don't expect them to hurry you along. Once you upgrade though things move faster and IP school can come at you within only a few hundred hours in the left seat. People move either voluntarily or via the services needs, and so unlike an airline domicile, turnover requires upgrades.

Good luck.