Atlas Air Interview

[Captain Monkey Suit]

Hi guys...I understand that Polar Air Cargo is on strike; yet I was offered an interview with Atlas Air. This disturbs me as I am very supportive of union issues and don't want to step on the toes of my union brothers. Obviously...I will NOT take a job away from a fellow union brother...I will NOT fly if the union dictates the pilots not to fly...probation or not. This is a no brainer...so we can skip the scab discussion.

What would be very helpful is guidance and information from the guys that are actually on the front lines; pilots at either Polar Air Cargo or Atlas Air. What is the union saying about pilots interviewing?

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[heilhaavir]

Don't worry about a thing, you are not involved in the PO fight (POwill have probably either settled or shut down before you get a class date). Go to the interview and give it your best.

Good luck!

 

[mar]

Good luck

Atlas pilots are not on strike.

You've been invited to an Atlas interview.

I'm sure the Polar guys appreciate your concern but there's absolutely no conflict of interest here.

Two seperate certificates, two seperate training depts, two seperate seniority lists.

One common owner: Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings.

AAWWH also has interests in Atlas Air Crew Services (AACS) and Global Supply Systems (GSS). Both have seperate seniority lists.

You may want to do a little research before you interview.

Good luck.

 

[Captain Monkey Suit]

I understand that they are picketing at the Miami interview site and Atlas is having the people come around the back...that seemed a little shady to me. That's the source of the concern...I'm not interested in steping on someone else's toes for self gain.

What kind of work schedules do you guys have? I have heard of 17 days straight. 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off? How long are the layovers? Any websites, other than the contract, that give the work rules and conditions in a nutshell? The Atlas website is pretty limiting on information, crew bases, etc.

 

[mar]

17 days of work minimum

http://www.atlasair.com/holdings/cb/default.asp

The link is to the CBA.

In a nutshell, you owe the company 17 days minimum. That's extendable up to 4 more days, no questions asked, but they pay you good money when they do so.

 

[barbarian4]

In a nutshell:

Work rules- they own you for 21 days a month

Bases- You'll be based in Stansted, England and commute on your own time and money

Pay- better than a lot of what's out there right now

Make sure it's what you want...Atlas is a lifestyle not a job

 

[Captain Monkey Suit]

Wow...I'm getting depressed: "a lifestyle not a job". Sounds like the Navy. Do you like this job or lifestyle?

What do you mean by paying your own way home? That sucks! Why would anyone agree to this? Do you mean the FULL cost back home to the states or your base? Big difference. Any difficulties jumpseating?


Ok...we have established that there is no life...you work long periods on the road...please tell me that you at least get long layovers in the different ports.

Do people stay at this job, or lifestyle, long term? Or is this a stepping stone to something else?

 

[barbarian4]

What do you mean by paying your own way home? That sucks! Why would anyone agree to this? Do you mean the FULL cost back home to the states or your base? Big difference. Any difficulties jumpseating?


Ok...we have established that there is no life...you work long periods on the road...please tell me that you at least get long layovers in the different ports.

Do people stay at this job, or lifestyle, long term? Or is this a stepping stone to something else?

You can jumpseat...keep in mind if you're going on an offline carrier you can only ride if there's a seat in back. Jumpseating to Europe in the summertime can be very difficult. By paying your own way...if you arrive into AMS at 2pm all the flights have left for the states so you can:

a)lounge around the terminal for 16 hours or so
b)get a hotel room for 70 euros
c)hang out in the red light district all night and then go out on medical due to a mysterious rash that your doctor can't identify

You'll have a little bit of credit from the company to work with...the amount it would cost them to position you back to STN from AMS, but it's not much.

You do get long layovers...sometime up to 5 days. Some guys like that kind of thing, personally I'd rather be home if I have that much down time.

Read the CBA carefully if you're seriously considering going there, make an informed decision, and then be sure you can live with it. There are some really good things about Atlas...schedule and QOL just don't happen to be some of them. If you can live with it long enough to be based in the US and get Gateway...things do get better.

 

[Captain Monkey Suit]

Interesting...so when you finish your tour of duty...say you finish in NYC...the company will fly you back to Stanstead if that is where you are based...correct? They don't just abandon you in some strange city and you have to get back to your pilot base on your own dime. Right? You were referring I think to going back to the states to visit or commuting from the US to your pilot base in England?

Do you have to stay in England for a solid 2 years, or does the company allow you to bid back to the states as soon as your seniority can hold it? How does the situation improve at this point? They will still pay for your trip back to your pilot base, correct?

Do most of the guys go somewhere else (just another stepping stone)? Or is this a career?

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate knowing what I am getting myself into before I interview.

 

[Flywrite]

How is QOL for someone who lives near Stansted? I know the commute is tough, but I'm from England and have access to a place to live. The wife and family would actually like an opportunity to live over there for a few years. Also, I read once that the company would pay a relocation allowance for crewmembers who did relocate to the UK. Is this true?

Thanks

 

[Wankel7]

How is QOL for someone who lives near Stansted? I know the commute is tough, but I'm from England and have access to a place to live. The wife and family would actually like an opportunity to live over there for a few years. Also, I read once that the company would pay a relocation allowance for crewmembers who did relocate to the UK. Is this true?

Thanks

Yeah, I was wondering about that too. If I got on with Atlas I would be all over living in England for two or three years. I really don't care how poor I would be...just something I would love to do

Is that a positive point when the company is looking at new hires?

 

[Captain Monkey Suit]

Wankel7,

Well sure it would be a positive note if you were interested in doing what is a company requirement. HR's first question after some resume Q's was how do you feel about the move to England. My take on this issue is that if you have a lot of obligations here in the states...like wife, kids, mortgage, or jail time...well then the move would be rather difficult to make (partially kidding, and partially serious). I'd hold back on telling them that you don't mind living in poverty...plenty of us pilots are already living in this situation, and if we are not, then they would love to pay us less. In Alaska I used to live under the kitchen table for the first month I was there in the crash pad. After a month I graduated to getting the couch next to a dude that farted all night...and that was a step up in poverty. So I wouldn't tell any employer that you'd do it for cheap, or live in poverty...that's part of the problem with our career. Hehehe.

Ahhh...here's a good tip...HR said they look for someone that has at least two type ratings and/or a minimum of 2000 hours of jet time in either seat. I didn't know this...so I thought it might help you...good luck.

 

[bman]

I've been here 5 months or so flying the line for 3. Here are my observations:

Overall it’s a pretty good job if this is what you want to do. If you want to fly a very well maintained modern machine, travel the world (and actually get time on the ground to see it), stay in nice hotels, and make a good sum of money this might be the place for you. If you expect to be home every night or fly 3 day trips and 4 or five days off, this isn't the place for you. Try SWA, JB, or Airtran or better you consider the banking profession.

I haven't seen STN since I've been here and with any luck I won't. Generally people (even the AACS guys) don't live in the UK it's expensive and the quality of life isn't as good as it is other places in Europe. When you are STN based the company will buy you a ticket from anywhere on the continent (within reason). The tix they buy contractually have to be biz class (if avail) so that gives you a decent sum of $ to play with. Sometimes you can even get them to buy you tickets from the states of equal or lesser value (I've done it a couple of times they are quite reasonable about this if you ask). If you live in central EU the train is a great alternate means.

The schedules are very shall we say fluid. It’s been said, "You’re not home until you're home!" There is some truth to that. Contractually you owe the company 17 days the others are off days. They can (and do so I hear) take up to four of your off days from you involuntarily, but the must compensate you at a graduated additional rate. It can be quite lucrative if you can stand it.

On that note. Regardless of what you might think or what people say you can make a serious amount of money here if you are willing to work. Mind you this ain't fedex/ups. You ain't gonna make 10gs sitting at home or flying guarantee. This is a place where you sell your time for money. There are guys here and polar who make well in excess of 200k (they are the extremes of course, but it is possible). Like any airline job you work the system and you can get what you want/need!

Regardless of what others say I enjoy it here. The flying is challenging and its own reward. The crews are generally a fun lot. It’s a very laid back kind of gig. Go, fly, earn, and come home. I came into this with my eyes open. It is not without its shortcomings, but overall I am satisfied with my choice. The CBA is the CBA, but it was their first one. If you got everything you wanted on the first try would you even need a union anymore, this area will improve over time.

You may hear from a lot of guys who are burnt out or don't like this or that, but you know what I say to that "Vote with your feet"! If it ever gets to that point for me I may have to make that decision and will do so. No job is ever worth more discomfort than you can bear.

Hope that helps

 

[Captain Monkey Suit]

Bman,

Thanks for that reply...it was very helpful. Noticed that you used to fly an Excel...me too.

Where are you based then? I thought it was a requirement to go to England initially...so there is hope to dodge that duty.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

How long does it generally take to bid back to the US, ANC in particular?

 

[Wankel7]

Wankel7,

Well sure it would be a positive note if you were interested in doing what is a company requirement. HR's first question after some resume Q's was how do you feel about the move to England. My take on this issue is that if you have a lot of obligations here in the states...like wife, kids, mortgage, or jail time...well then the move would be rather difficult to make (partially kidding, and partially serious). I'd hold back on telling them that you don't mind living in poverty...plenty of us pilots are already living in this situation, and if we are not, then they would love to pay us less. In Alaska I used to live under the kitchen table for the first month I was there in the crash pad. After a month I graduated to getting the couch next to a dude that farted all night...and that was a step up in poverty. So I wouldn't tell any employer that you'd do it for cheap, or live in poverty...that's part of the problem with our career. Hehehe.

Ahhh...here's a good tip...HR said they look for someone that has at least two type ratings and/or a minimum of 2000 hours of jet time in either seat. I didn't know this...so I thought it might help you...good luck.

Thanks for the run down! Good point on what you said. I have the two types I just need more jet time. Thanks again!

Wankel

 

[treetopflyer]

jet time, schmet time. just find out when denise is going to be in mia doing interviews and be there at the time they start. you'll know who she is and just walk up to her and give her your resume and ask if anyone hasn't shown up that day.


smile nice and she will either A: take your stuff and tell you thanks but she will have to look it over


B: someone will have not shown up and she may let you in for the day.

obviously no promises, but worth a try.

getting back to the states is like anywhere else with a base bid, seniority, seniority, seniority, but with an estimated 250+ retirement in the next five years you can imagine that movement will be rapid at the FO level. I have been here about the same time as b-man but i fly the workin mans airplane, while he just jets around to all the shoeshine spots in the world (just kidding)
if you come here with a laid back attitude and can get along with people, you will do fine, but those who get all riled up easy, you might as well stop now.

 

[bman]

amen!

 

[Whale Rider]

Tomorrow is tomorrow.

 

[bman]

Tomorrow is tomorrow.

Whale why r u hijacking this thread?

 

[Captain Monkey Suit]

Here's some new questions for you guys at Atlas and Polar:
1) When does Atlas's contract expire or due to be re-negotiated? Do you expect there to be similar issues than what Polar is currently going through? I am familiar with the fact that they are different companies (AAWW)...pay scales are different...ACMI's vs scheduled. I was thinking more along the lines of scope (job protection and mergers), and work rules at Atlas.

2) Denise in HR told me that she was setting up "interviewing for Atlas..." but later said she places the pilots from the pool into either Polar or Atlas and she will sort as she needs. If offered Polar...assuming you were in the pilot pool...can you ask to hold off until Atlas is available? It appears to be a catch 22...If Polar hires you...then as a probationary pilot with no protection...your gonna get fired for not flying the line when told not to by the union...OR...for a few...become "black-listed" as scabs.

3) Is it true that about "24 pilots were "furloughed" from Polar...yet "all" were offered jobs with Atlas...and "all" excepted. This board also references that these guys furloughed, were not the 24 junior most guys. Is this true?

4) Does AAWW want to merge Polar into Atlas? If so...any scope clauses in either TA or contract?

Let me make it clear that I am not trying to stir anything up, I am just researching the situation so that I can make an intelligent choice for myself.
Again...thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts and opinions.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Here's some new questions for you guys at Atlas and Polar:
1) When does Atlas's contract expire or due to be re-negotiated? Do you expect there to be similar issues than what Polar is currently going through? I am familiar with the fact that they are different companies (AAWW)...pay scales are different...ACMI's vs scheduled. I was thinking more along the lines of scope (job protection and mergers), and work rules at Atlas.

2) Denise in HR told me that she was setting up "interviewing for Atlas..." but later said she places the pilots from the pool into either Polar or Atlas and she will sort as she needs. If offered Polar...assuming you were in the pilot pool...can you ask to hold off until Atlas is available? It appears to be a catch 22...If Polar hires you...then as a probationary pilot with no protection...your gonna get fired for not flying the line when told not to by the union...OR...for a few...become "black-listed" as scabs.

3) Is it true that about "24 pilots were "furloughed" from Polar...yet "all" were offered jobs with Atlas...and "all" excepted. This board also references that these guys furloughed, were not the 24 junior most guys. Is this true?

4) Does AAWW want to merge Polar into Atlas? If so...any scope clauses in either TA or contract?

Let me make it clear that I am not trying to stir anything up, I am just researching the situation so that I can make an intelligent choice for myself.
Again...thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts and opinions.

1. Atlas contract comes due in January. Probably going to be a similar fight over here in a year or so. I do not see mgmt. changing tactics for Atlas. QOL issues will probably be the sticker point. (Just my guess)
2. Probably will not be a factor for you, will most likely be done one way or another by then.
3. All the guys with less than 12 months service were fired, NOT furloughed. Rough number is about 48 to 52 total, Furlough notices have been sent out to others. The fired new hires were offered slots at Atlas. I do not know the number that took it. I do know a couple of guys that left for CAL and will not return.
4. Who knows, It depends on the day and if it is to mgmts. advantage. (There has been friction at the barganing table about this, mgmt refused to put it in writing earlier in the negotiations, then offered it at a later time, who knows)

 

[mar]

Preferential Hiring?

The fired new hires were offered slots at Atlas.

Were they actually made job offers?

In one of Erikson's voicemails he mentioned "preferential hiring" for the terminated Polar probbies.

To me that sounded like they had to endure another interview but I'm pretty unclear about it.

 

[Captain Monkey Suit]

Good information keroseneSnorter...that helps a bit.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Were they actually made job offers?

In one of Erikson's voicemails he mentioned "preferential hiring" for the terminated Polar probbies.

To me that sounded like they had to endure another interview but I'm pretty unclear about it.

Why would they need to interview again? They were interviewed by Atlas the first time.

There is no difference in the hiring process between Atlas/Polar. During my interview Both the Polar and Atlas CP were in attendance. I didn't know which airline I was going to get the job with until they called with a class date. That is what I meant in the other thread when I said we (newbies) all considered ourselves as one pilot group. Everybody trains together the first two weeks. Then you are split off into your aircraft type (classic or 400) and airline specific classes.

In short, no interviews, just a new class date with a quick course for the Polar transfers (Quick course is 20 days, half of the normal.)

The only downside is that the Polar guys lose their seniority. So the Atlas guys that they were hired with will end up senior to them through no fault of the Polar guy. The Polar guys were "assigned" to Polar so it doesn't really seem right that a guy hired 10 months after he/she was by the same company get seniority over them, but oh well.

I think most of the Atlas newbies feel that the Polar guys should be given their original DOH and reintergrated into the class they were hired with. I am sure that there are a few "I got mine so get lost" type of folks, but I would have no problem with a reintegration by DOH. It would add a few under me and a few above me, but would not affect me by more than a few numbers reletive to the whole group. After all, they (polar newbies) had zero control over what has transpired.

 

[mar]

I'm just trying to avoid assumptions, that's all

Great! Thanks for clearing that up for me.

When I interviewed last year it was specifically for Atlas. You identified a couple issues I had not considered before.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Great! Thanks for clearing that up for me.

When I interviewed last year it was specifically for Atlas. You identified a couple issues I had not considered before.

Yea I was originally given a Polar class date, then an Atlas class opened up that was earlier so I took it.

As far as the reintegration, I think they should do it that way. The way I look at it I always knew when the merger came that the classes that were jointly hired by both would probably go DOH anyhow (99% chance anyhow given historical data from other ALPA mergers) I cannot in my right mind justify putting some guy on the bottom of the list for my own gain of a few numbers, especially since I showed up the same day he did and both of us were sucking down cold beverages together during the first weekend! Even during checkride week both Atlas and Polar folks were getting together in study groups to review systems, then break off for our airline specific callouts and SOP's and such.