Athlete's and Pilots

[B-J-J Fighter]

On a side note, I like that term dudemanship. I know what you mean.

 

[stonewall]

I think what makes a pilot have above average skills is just not just what's between the ears but as Magnum said hand eye coordination. I think that almost any sport the be good or really good requires good hand eye coordination, I think the same can be said for being a pilot. GO out and do aerobatics, tell me that doesn't require good hand eye coordination. Yes there are some real fatasses out there flying but I can promise you they won't 't be as good at aerobatics as some athlete who's in shape simple due to the fact there reaction time is slower.

On a side note most of the "athletes" and I use that term loosely at the service academy's where for the most part smart kids in high school who happen to be pretty descent at there given sport. I wrestled Division one and most our guys sitting the bench (I did the first yr or so myself) could beat there starters.

Easy now. I disagree with your loose use of the term "athlete." That description doesn't jive with most of the intercollegiates at a Service Academy. Just b/c you were a better wrestler than the guys at USAFA doesn't mean they're not good athletes. You could easily say the same about D-1AA or DIII wrestlers.

Ask UT what they think about the "athletes" on USAFA's football team. You could also ask Chad Hennings, Bryce Fisher, Chris Gizzi, or Steve Russ...all played or are playing in the NFL.

As a side note, I've got my first BJJ tourney on the 30th!

 

[Pistlpetet]

I think what makes a pilot have above average skills is just not just what's between the ears but as Magnum said hand eye coordination.

Hmmm If Hand and Eye coordination is so important. Then how come such a small minority of Pilot Error Accidents involve aircraft control, or lack there of it.

It all boils down to JUDGEMENT ie. whats in your grey matter.

There is a difference between what guy is cool in the cockpit to talk to (Reliving glorys days of past sporting prowess), and what guy gets the job done, and returns in one piece.

JUDGEMENT First, Stick Shaking Second!

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Easy now. I disagree with your loose use of the term "athlete." That description doesn't jive with most of the intercollegiates at a Service Academy. Just b/c you were a better wrestler than the guys at USAFA doesn't mean they're not good athletes. You could easily say the same about D-1AA or DIII wrestlers.

Ask UT what they think about the "athletes" on USAFA's football team. You could also ask Chad Hennings, Bryce Fisher, Chris Gizzi, or Steve Russ...all played or are playing in the NFL.

As a side note, I've got my first BJJ tourney on the 30th!

Magnum, I said that because I knew it would ruffle some feathers, the old competitive side coming out. Then again I will also add there are exceptions to the rule, yes some good athletes do go to the service academies. But for the the most part they are exceptions. Just because David Robinson played basketball at Navy does not mean every Navy B-Ball player is good, he was the exception to the rule.

This is something that happened to me. A guy that had my number in h.s. went to Westpoint and wrestled. He beat me every single match in h.s. Never did pin me but decisioned me every time. He became my rival after about 10th grade. Well he went to USMA and wrestled. Started his freshmen yr while I rode the pine and got better. I was wrestleing tough hombres day in and out and getting whooped. Well 2 yrs into our college career we finally meet up again. I put a punking on him that I bet he will never forget. After the match he threw his head gear across the gym because I was rubbing it in so much (he did the same to me in high school, pay backs a witch).

So yes I will agree there are some good athletes at the service academdies. I was mainly joking around and trying to ruffle a few feathers like I said earlier.
Good luck w/ your 1 st tournament, just relax because if you let your nerves get to you, it will kill your cardio.

Pete, I agree with you somewhat, I think it takes both though. Your right in the fact that most accidents are caused from mental mistakes and not physical ones.

 

[Pistlpetet]

You are right it takes both, all of which probably have nothing to do with sports. It also depends what kind of flying you are talking about. There is no perfect mix, the best we can hope for is to be as well rounded as possible to be the best at our current mission.

In some parts of aviation, taking risks are more important, in others pure brains are the order of the day.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Well, good hand eye coordination is something that can be made better. Some people genetically have better hand eye coordination. For the some people that attribute can be improved through sports. Some people are born with good hand eye coordiantion others aren't. Sports are a way to improve it, thus if it can be agreed that hand eye coordination makes one a better, sports can improve one's skill as a pilot.

 

[Scrapdog]

There are plenty of fatass pilots out there in the airlines flying everything from RJs to 747-400s, and they do a fine job...and I'd imagine they probably played baseball or football or basketball at some point when they were in school.

I played Little League & Babe Ruth, middle school basketball, peewee & high school football, and got into running during college. To this day I try to do 10-15 miles per week, have done probably 8 road races (5K-half marathon) in the last few years and can run a 21min 5K, not blazing but not shabby. I'm starting training now for another Half this coming spring, hoping for PRs of a 45min 10K in training and a 1:45 in the actual half.

Does any of that make me a better pilot? NOPE...but it does keep me in shape on the road, eating crap food & having irregular sleep schedules.

If you fly an RJ (which I think you do), a 747, or any other airliner from point A to B you don't have to be a good athlete. You have to be able to turn on the autopilot, throw the gear handle up and down, and tune in the final course on the HSI. I mean, come on - we've seen some pretty gargantuan airline guys out there that look like slobs who can get an aluminum tube from point A to B.

I can't speak for C-130 or C-17 guys flying low levels, but I'd imagine that's pretty taxing to the body. If you're flying a fight-tank-fight in the summer time in any fighter, you'd better dang be in shape or in some type of athletic form because that is extremely tough on the body...especially if it's G intensive like ACM or BFM.

So, bottom line - does being in shape make you a better civilian pilot flying an RJ?...of course not - your job is to fly a straight line from point A to B. Does being in shape make me (or any other military guy) out there a better pilot?...you bet it does - it helps tremendously in high G sorties.

 

[BoilerUP]

Scrapdog, continuing to perpetuate the civilian vs. military pilot debate...

I'd argue that being in shape doesn't make you or anybody a better pilot (as in stick and rudder skills), it makes you less apt to feel the effects of high G forces.

 

[HarryShadow]

I can't speak for C-130 or C-17 guys flying low levels, but I'd imagine that's pretty taxing to the body. If you're flying a fight-tank-fight in the summer time in any fighter, you'd better dang be in shape or in some type of athletic form because that is extremely tough on the body...especially if it's G intensive like ACM or BFM.

It just depends. Our normal training sortie (5.0 with about 2 hour low-level, airdrops, refuelings, max-efforts, etc), not so much. The toughest part for us is the hours we're flying...usually until 0200, home at 0400. Then up the next day ASAP to get back to the desk job.

However, a deployed sortie for us could range from 4 hours to 14 hours, with maybe only 1 hour of high level flight, the rest in the weeds (not a typical profile these days, but 2 years ago they were common practice). I'd throw one of our 14 hour sorties out there in the company of a 1.5 ACM/BFM. But don't let a heavy guy try to convince you this is the norm.

 

[Mamma]

I think what differentiates a good pilot from great pilot, and by default a bad pilot is leadership. Athletes in general embrace the leader role moreso than others. Hand-eye - shamd eye, I can do 200 pushups. Big deal. Can you direct a crew or formation in stressful situations with little time to think? Athletes deal with these issues when they are very young and in their formative years. They see it firsthand when they were learning the sport from the older teammates and more hands on when they are the older teammates expected to display leadership. So, I think, being an athlete is part of a good pilot, but the real attribute is leadership. Not all athletes are leaders and not all leaders are athletes, but I bet in more cases than not, your athletes are going to be out front when leadership is needed. Just my opinion.

 

[K-Mart]

Being a good athlete probably would make one a good pilot. But, not always. Top pilot from my UPT class, hands down, couldn’t dribble a basketball to save his life. Seriously, it was embarrassing and funny to watch it. He ended up in Eagles and has apparently kicked some but over in the community. It was bizzare because the dude could fly and lead a formation better than anybody else, inlcuding the instructors, but his ability in athletics was hilarious. Take it for what it is worth

 

[Deuce130]

If you're flying a fight-tank-fight in the summer time in any fighter, you'd better dang be in shape or in some type of athletic form because that is extremely tough on the body...especially if it's G intensive like ACM or BFM.

So, bottom line - does being in shape make you a better civilian pilot flying an RJ?...of course not - your job is to fly a straight line from point A to B. Does being in shape make me (or any other military guy) out there a better pilot?...you bet it does - it helps tremendously in high G sorties.

I dunno. I've seen some pretty out of shape fighter dudes. Especially at patch nights, when all of the old guard and reserve guys show up! How do the 50+ year olds handle the high g sorties?

 

[Gorilla]

Scrapdog, continuing to perpetuate the civilian vs. military pilot debate...

I'd argue that being in shape doesn't make you or anybody a better pilot (as in stick and rudder skills), it makes you less apt to feel the effects of high G forces.

Well, the two (G-resistance and stick/rudder) go hand in hand when doing ACM. High G maneuvering is an integral component of a BFM sortie. You need to be able to do both simultaneously.

I flew many missions with guys who I knew were weak with high-G. Inevitably they were lame at the merge. We'd look at the tapes and instead of 8 or 9G, they're doing 6 and barely functioning, usually getting spanked by a guy with more G-resistance. The greatest stick and rudder man in the world would suck in a fighter if he passed out at 5 G.

It's a package deal.

 

[ExAF]

Ha!

Anyone that's been to the fuge knows the best pilots for g tolerance are the short, fat, smokers with high blood pressure. They can pull 9 g's all day long and sing a song while doing it. :beer:

 

[Scrapdog]

I dunno. I've seen some pretty out of shape fighter dudes. Especially at patch nights, when all of the old guard and reserve guys show up! How do the 50+ year olds handle the high g sorties?

2 words there - jalapeno popcorn. Get enough of that fattening crap in your veins and when you hit 50 you can handle all the G's you want.

 

[Scrapdog]

Scrapdog, continuing to perpetuate the civilian vs. military pilot debate...

I'd argue that being in shape doesn't make you or anybody a better pilot (as in stick and rudder skills), it makes you less apt to feel the effects of high G forces.

It's not a civilian vrs. military thing in the least. The military has heavies as well, last time I checked. If your mission is to fly a straight and level line from point A to B, then I would argue that being in shape probably is not going to contribute to your mission objective being accomplished.

if your mission is to pull a lot of G's while being quick in reacting to what's presented to you (i.e. an ACM scenario, or a short-range commit type ride), then being in shape is going to effect your objectives being accomplished for that mission. Being in shape to handle the G loading helps you focus your brain more on reacting to the problem being presented to you by the bandits because the G loading has less effect on your body and requires less of you actively straining against blacking out. And if you can focus more on the problem, then you can react more effectively and quickly. Therefore, by logical flow, being in shape does indeed effect the quality of pilot you are for that specific type mission and/or aircraft (namely fighters).

 

[YeOldeProp]

Really impressed with the fact y'all have kept this thread strictly to athleticism and the FLYING part of being a pilot. Really surprised no one steered the thread into the bar after the flight and the athleticism or stamina required in that historically glorified and fabled part of the military flying world (sound of Animal House music in the background). And I know that a lot of the leadership these days prefer the club to be a "buy lots and lots of beer...but only drink one" mentality, but the antics over the many years by military pilots of all athletic and consumption ability probably deserves mention.

Debate the atheleticism (sp?) of:
--- bat-hanging
--- carrying a tray of shots through the dance floor at any hopping club
---"rodeo" (remember the series of article 15's handed out at RAF Upper Heyford after one of the F-111 guys bit onto the backside of a visiting female JAG and held on for 8 seconds? Talk about a women scorned...)
---the art of carrier landings (and the physical abuse received upon a bad trap)
--- chicken fights with the local lovelys perched onthe shoulders
---those who took the wrong girl home and paid for it "physically" (at least when shots could cure those things)

And for the world travellers of the forum:
---the abuse the body took from:
-Efes beer in Turkey (uncontrolled alcohol content)
-Tusker in Africa (same)
-Domestica in Greece (rotgut wine)
-Ouzo ('nuff said)
-Mekong whiskey in Thailand (if the Singha beer/formaldahyde didn't get ya)
-Long Island Ice Teas anywhere
-Veranda parties in Puerto Rico where the first blender always burned out and the second barely made it through the night
-Phillipine San Miguel beer
-Cinnamon schnapps in El Mundo's in Souda Bay (but inexplicably always ended up with some pretty girls dancing on the bar and losing clothes throughout the song)
-Any exchange week with the Brits, the Aussie's, the Germans or the Canadians...just way too much of a good time

Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...

And...the physical ability of all the pilots and their crews to wake up the next morning (sometimes afternoon) and go out and get the mission done...then do it all over again...

Sorry to creep the thread...but there has been more to the military flying lifestyle than just flying...at least there was. Just trying to pass along a little bit of undocumented military history. Hope the fun continues...

 

[HarryShadow]

And...the physical ability of all the pilots and their crews to wake up the next morning (sometimes afternoon)...

Are you suppose to actually sleep???

 

[Gorilla]

Prop, my friend, you forgot crud. The athleticism of a top crud player rivals any pro football or basketball player... AND you do it while totally 'faced.

Think Terrell Owens or Kobe Bryant puking drunk but still smacking the ball for a sweet 6.1", while simultaneously holding a mug of beer, not spilling a drop, and elbowing the enemy out of the way.

'Tis a thing of beauty for all time.

 

[Tweetdrvr]

In my six years of watching 15+ classes of Phase II T-37 and T-6 students come through the flight room it does seem that those who played team sports involving lots of motion and running plays (basketball, soccer, lacrosse, hockey to name a few) seem to pick up on the pattern a little faster than those without a team sport background. I know there are always exceptions, but knowing where the forward is and where he is going on the fast break seems to help guys spatially orient to all those UPT RSU pattern calls.

The fastest solo I have ever witnessed happened four years ago. We had a student go dollar ride to soloing a 37 in 15 calendar days. No prior flying time other than the AF issued IFT private license, and not the greatest hands, but a real quick learner and picked up on the pattern really quickly. She played intramural hoops at the zoo and may have played some lacrosse in high school.