ATC yelled at me today....

[gkrangers]

ATC isn't going to clear you for a visual approach into a non towered airport until you are clear of any potentially conflicting traffic. That includes any other arriving or departing IFR traffic to that airport that either has an approach clearance or has been released for departure. There is more to it than just getting the field in sight.

Then if that was the case, don't you think ATC should have been more accomodating if ATC created the "situation"?

Then again...dhc probably shoulda been down to 2000 anyway.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Then if that was the case, don't you think ATC should have been more accomodating if ATC created the "situation"?

Then again...dhc probably shoulda been down to 2000 anyway.

If you have never been cleared for a visual approach from a position that was virtually impossible to make it straight in from, you obviously have not been flying for very long.

With that being said, if he needed to make an unexpected maneuver he should have informed ATC of such.

 

[gkrangers]

If you have never been cleared for a visual approach from a position that it was virtually impossible to make it straight in from, you obviously have not been flying for very long.

With that being said, if he needed to make an unexpected maneuver he should have informed ATC of such.

The words "impossible" and 172 and visual approach don't go together. I understand what you are saying tho and I agree. I'm just throwing out whatever comes to mind with regard to the situation.

 

[Bjammin]

There are at least 2 ATC guys on here that I would say are experts on this. They both agree that you were on an IFR clearence and you can't just make a play for the runway any way you want when you are IFR.

They way I teach students IFR is you can't do anything without being cleared to do so. How would I have handled it? CANCEL!!! That takes all the responsibilty for seperation out of the controllers hands and allows you to do whatever you want in your non controlled airspace.

When in doubt and you are VMC? Cancel or ask!!!!

 

[Flyerjosh]

Orlando got uppity with me today.

Orlando: adsfajgjfd;gdgljgjgg radar contact squak 1234 and ident
Orlando: Cessna 12345 did you copy?
Me: You were blocked.
Orlando: No I wasn't...blah blah blah blah...
Me: readsback whatever he said.

I really wanted to say "Yeah, you were."

The proper response to this would be "blocked again".
They they want to get all uppity, I can too...

 

[Say Again Over]

Unfortunately, I've had to write up more than one pilot who made a 360 to get down/slow down after being cleared for a slam-dunk visual approach at ORD by PC800

That is hard to believe!

 

[Lequip]

It's not a slam dunk when you are given 13 minutes to descend from 15000 down to 2000. It's a nice smooth 1000 FPM descent rate. This retard pilot was just too clueless to execute it properly and had to resort to cowboy maneuvers in the traffic pattern. Descending 360's on top of an airport into a VFR traffic pattern is stupid and unsafe. I'm sure his passengers were impressed.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Well, the problem is is that we as controllers expect you to do something, and sometimes pilots don't understand what to do, what we request or sometimes they just do things. Woopty doo....If the controller got on you for it, well he had a reason more or less a plane coming in behind you or what not. There is a lack of knowledge between pilots and controllers, you don't know our job 100% and we don't know yours. Fortunatly Ive been on the professional side of both to know, that we are all human, we do dumb things, we plan wrong and sometimes we just have to do something to make the problem work. As a controller, I don't usually give a pilot crap unless he is making the air unsafe for another aircraft. If it doesn't effect anyone else do 300kts to the runway for all i care. As for the late descent, we don't know the entire story, can't shoot this guy down and call him an amatuer, we know nothing of what happend. Perhaps ATC kept him up high for crossing traffic and there was a lack of communication between pilot and controller for the steep descent that would have occured if he hadn't spun the aircraft. Controllers know AC perfromance very well, however, sometimes we expect a Kingair to climb out like a lear, it doesn't happen but some controllers figure ah....turbine, he can do 250kt climb at 3000fpm.....or rapid descents for a pressurized aircraft. Ive seen planes cross 11 south of my airport for the ILS out of 11000ft, my airport is 125msl. They make it, why can't the kingair??? Well, I know this answer, some controllers don't. Its simple, we arent able to meet that restriction or this isn't going to work, fine....a good controller is running Plan A. When it doesn't work, plan b and c are already in his brain, when b doesn't work, c is the back up and d is created and so on. As long as communication are clear between both parties everything works out...."approach i need to do a 360" "approved" or "unable, maintian 3000 for now fly hdg 330 approach clnce canceled ill have a new one for you in 10 miles." We have back ups as do you. You tell us what you need and if we can't do it we will work something out.

Fly safe

MK

 

[H.Agenda]

Unfortunately, I've had to write up more than one pilot who made a 360 to get down/slow down after being cleared for a slam-dunk visual approach at ORD. You just can't do that without advising ATC-- the 360 not only puts the aircraft in the face of the next aircraft in line, but can also cause the aircraft to lose separation with arrivals and/or departures using other runways. If a loss of separation occurs in such a circumstance, it's either a pilot deviation or an operational error-- and I've never seen one declared an operational error.

Thanks for making our fellow pilots' lives difficult, then ratting them out to the FED's for trying to make your bullsh1t clearance work. Its just not a pilots' philosophy to write up controllers; and most you guys can never own up to making a mistake. Cheers!!!

Lrjcaptain you sound like one of the better ones...

 

[TrailerTrash]

ATC Feared

No big deal move on with your life.