"ATC explain yourself, over"

[Hold West]

Hey boy wonder behind the scope... how many years have you put in serving your country? Oh never mind ... you wouldn't have a clue what our fine young military men/women do every day in the service of this great country. Hint: it involves a hell of a lot more RISK than falling off your ATC stool!

BBB

Ah, insult, the last refuge of the huge ego that is inflated only by vacuum. You have no intellectual reply to what I've said, so you'll just get angry.

Have I served the country in uniform? Yes. Peacetime Army, and I was a total REMF at that, but proud of it, and I never pass myself off as anything else. As for you, your profile says military, and now you want us to believe you're an airline captain. Fine - but don't bloviate about your service to your country from your air conditioned cockpit at 35,000 feet. Pin some crossed rifles on your collar, or maybe a globe & anchor on your blouse and we'll talk. Til then, you're just a glorified bus driver - which makes me nothing but the traffic cop on the corner chewing on a donut, but then I'm not pretending to be the Greatest American Hero.

Now, to put this back into some sembance of relation to the topic under discussion, my answers are not just academic. They are how I operate all day every day. They represent how I train people, and how I was trained. Maybe I am getting hung up on a turn of phrase here, but "what's my sequence" equates for most of us to a simple "number 4" or whatever type of answer. I am saying I owe you more than that, real information that will tell you what to expect in terms far better than a curt "number 3" will. Everyone seems to be disagreeing with me, but I'll keep telling people that ask exactly what they can expect in a meaningful format.

 

[GravityHater]

I thank all for the intelligent input, I have learned lots.

 

[Hold West]

Be a man and own up to it.

It took me near 20 years to figure it out, but the Reagan "Slap-ees" were being men, the day they walked out the door. They stood up for what they believed in, and laid it all on the line. As a result they individually lost, big time - but many of the things they were asking for, major safety improvements, modern personnel practices, were put in place.

I work with a number of graduates of the class of '81, and have met quite a few others. Not a one whines about what happened to them. They were, and are, men (and women!) in the best sense of the word.

Apologies for further thread drift, but I couldn't let that slide by.

 

[Say Again Over]

2 cents

Lots of good comments here, I personally have a hard time swallowing the dribble about "planning the minimum fuel approach", luckily by using the TCAS I can usually guess where my base leg will be most of the time, if they turn me while I'm high it's time to do some of that pilot stuff. Everyone has their own way of doing things and different circumstances exist at different airports but I will only enquirer about sequence when the holding starts.

 

[traffic pilot]

hey center controllers we're coming down the east coast to mco and we want to cut the corner to orm way up in washington centers airspace we know there are warning areas and you know there are warning areas we know jax center knows if they are active what kind of coordination does it take for a washington center guy to find out whether we can cut across and go direct

 

[81Horse]

... Not a one whines about what happened to them. ...

And yet ... Big Beer Belly's bitter. It's been 25 years, the earth has returned to its orbit. Let it go, dude.
Hold West ... :beer: Good luck in the never-ending battle.

 

[amaineiac]

Not to get back on the topic or anything...

I usually don't ask for a landing sequence unless we're close to exceeding MLW. On some of the short EMJ flights, we run into the issue of not burning enough fuel enroute and may land overweight. ORD approach gets a little bent out of shape if you have to go around for being overweight, so if it's going to be close, I like to have an idea how long the final is going to be so I can plan on how soon I need to dirty the plane up to make landing weight.

 

[smellthejeta]

j41,

Problem is "Hold" is full of crap. In 20+ years of flying military/121 NEVER have I been told how many miles I can expect to be turned to a base. His is purely an "academic" answer ... truth is it NEVER happens in the real world. Thus, you have numerous guys ALL contradicting him and expressing the same thought. I'd rather be told more information in order to plan an efficient descent/arrival than kept in the dark (which is standard operating procedure for most primadonna ATC "specialists".) These guys coordinate traffic ... nothing more.

We need Reagan to slap the big egos down again! :smash:

BBB

WEEEeeeelllll..... The way this new contract is going, you just might get your way. There will be no strike. What there will be is a mass exodus of retirees and a bunch of yet-to-be newhires walking off the job or just refusing to go to work in the first place. Those of you airline pilots who have voted in every concessionary contract in the last five years fail to realize that working traffic doesn't have the same appeal that flying airplanes does. I work traffic for the $$$, cause there sure ain't no glory or respect in it.

Is this doom-and-gloom scenario just as much hyperbole as you guys "taking a stand" (and then caving)? Too soon to tell, but I'm guessing we'll find out June 5th what the status of our proposed contract is. The difference this time around is that the FAA has no leverage. Unlike a pilot who is 15 years into his career and needs to save his pension, all the current controllers WILL retire, pension intact, and the new guys will just find something else to do.

So, in reference to the Regan bitch-slap, I say (to quote the current president): "Bring it on!"

 

[unreal]

Unlike a pilot who is 15 years into his career and needs to save his pension, all the current controllers WILL retire, pension intact, and the new guys will just find something else to do.

So, in reference to the Regan bitch-slap, I say (to quote the current president): "Bring it on!"

Absolutely. Now that the FAA's proposed contract has a 99.9999% chance of being imposed, I'm punching out for sure. Thing is, a lot of people I graduated with are doing the very same. I know many that are going back to flying (myself included), and a few that are simply going to go explore other career paths. At least at Mt. SAC, the knee-jerk reaction to this new contract was to get out and get out quick. If I were to make an educated guess, I'd say this was happening everywhere.

Good luck to the FAA I suppose. I brought up this question to the Regional Administrator of AWP when he visited Mt. SAC a month or so ago: "How is the FAA going to meet its hiring quota of 12,500 new controllers over the next 10 years, when under the new pay scale, many CTIs will simply reject the job offer?" His roundabout answer: "We don't forsee a problem."

More power to 'em.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

- but don't bloviate about your service to your country from your air conditioned cockpit at 35,000 feet. Pin some crossed rifles on your collar, or maybe a globe & anchor on your blouse and we'll talk.

Ah... on the eve of our nation's tribute to our fallen soldiers, I find your belittling of the sacrifices of this nation's courageous young men and women (regardless of their branch of service) despicable.

You win Hold, but I think very little of you and your views of those who gave their lives in defense of this great country. Marginalizing the deaths of thousands of brave airmen, all so you can win a useless argument, literally sickens me.

After reading your thoughts I hope the FAA shoves the bat up your A$$ with your new contract. :angryfire

BBB


Chew on this you A$$hole:

U.S. ARMY AIR FORCE CASUALTIES TOTALED 120,000, OF WHOM 40,000 DIED IN COMBAT. ANOTHER 15,000 DIED IN TRAINING OR IN AIRCRAFT ACCIDENTS IN THE UNITED STATES. AIRCRAFT LOSSES WERE 65,200, ONE THIRD OF THESE WERE DESTROYED IN CRASHES IN THE STATES.>>

This just in WWII.