ATC Benefits

[dickburns]

atl pilot, your points are correct, HOWEVER. it's a bit tough to see two FPLs sitting at a sector, the one working the radar is making $85k and the guy sitting on their D is making $160k...or vice versa.

 

[atl pilot]

atl pilot, your points are correct, HOWEVER. it's a bit tough to see two FPLs sitting at a sector, the one working the radar is making $85k and the guy sitting on their D is making $160k...or vice versa.

I've been doing this 25 years. It took me awhile to get there. Even before Reclass you didn't start at the top.

Apples for apples. FOs (new hires at the Regionals) start at about $18,000 per year (on average). Captains who have been around for a decade or so make $90,000+. They do exactly the same thing and sit side-by-side.

We have new hires at ATL Tower who have progressed from the new hire pay (of about $35,000 per year) to FPL rate (of about $90,000 per year) in under 8 months. Yes, there are several of them that have achieved this (10 - 15 of them to be exact since the hiring started about 2 years ago).

Still do not know what the problem is. These people get a pay raise every year that brings them closer to me....that I do not (as I am capped). I worked for TWO DECADES before I broke $100,000. I still think its a good deal.

Jealousy will get you nowhere. The problem is that this new young generation wants it all now. Work for it and it will come. This is true an almost every industry - you cannot and will not start at the top!

In addition, if all you're looking at is the salary, you are very short-sided. The whole package is what you should be looking at. The retirement perks and benies, the medical, etc. I will say it again: In this day and age, I do not know of any other jobs where you can retire at age 50, or before if you've given 25 years of service, and start recieveing a pension PLUS 401K (or TSP in government-ese). If you keep focusing on the one (basic salary), you miss the most important part.

This is STILL a great job. There have always been, throughout my entire career people who were senior to me, making more money siitting right next to me while doing the exact same job. This will happen anywhere you go, and in every indutsry. This is not the same as when you played scoccer as kids, and everyone played, everyone won. This is real life. Its how it works.

 

[atl pilot]

And let me add this, I feel and understand your pain. At the time that Reclass happened in 1998 several folks, (who in my opinion got to keep money and shouldn't have been, were allowed to do so), there were many, many folks out in the system whose level 1 facilities had been privatized (in the mid-1990s) prior to the money changeover. A lot of these folks went from Level 1 towers to level 4 and 5 facilities. Then they washed out of these facilities. When they were reassigned to lower level towers, they were allowed to keep the pay raise they recieved when they went to whatever big-house they were not successful at. I had to work alongside several of these people over the years. While they made in many cases $30 - 40,000 more than I, while doing the same job. I had bid on these facilities that they washed out of over and over all through the 1980s and 1990s, but could never get picked up (and get the associated pay raises) b/c of government bureacracy and stupid rules of the day (most of which are gone now). But these folks were given paid moves, pay raises, and then washed out and got to keep the money. All the while I was senior to all of them. And as a side note, many of these folks will not ever let you forget that were at (chose a facility name) sometime in their career. They neglect to tell you they were a training faiulure. So, working alongside them was such a huge joy!

This is governement. Sometimes you just have to float with the current. I know its frustrating, but while my pilot-husband struggles with his thrird airline in five year (thanks to furloughs), will never see a pesnion, has student loans up the wazoo to pay off, and gets really sh***ty 401K matches from ASA that do not show up in a timely fashion in his account.....I can retire at 48 years of age and make more than he does in a year of flying at ASA just out of my guarenteed FAA pension check.

This is STILL great job. Even with the BS rules and B-scale.

 

[dickburns]

atl-pilot, I fear you've missed my point.

nowhere have I said there is anything wrong with the job, with seniority or anything. the airline system with pay WORKS...a new hire FO makiing $18k knows that if he puts in the same 10 years that captain put in, he'll be at $90k when he gets there.

in atc, it's not currently that way. A dev that gets checked out can compare themself to a 15 or 20 year FPL who's base is $150k and they know, that on the current pay scale, when they hit 15 or 20 years, their base will be $115k or so...THAT is what's bullsh!t! It isn't so much the fact that they make different $ as much as the POTENTIAL and OPPORTUNITY to make that $$ eventually.

You're right, someone with more seniority and experience SHOULD make more $ than the other one, but shouldn't you both be progressing on the same scale? I know of two new-FPLs that go to their facility with 3 months of each other. One got a much earlier radar school than the other, got checked out right before the contract, the other one go checked out a few months after....so here you have two controllers, with ~3 months difference in their FPL dates, and hire dates, making over $30k difference in their pay...that's CRAZY!

 

[atl pilot]

I agree with you. However, when I started we never dreamed that we'd male more than GS-14 money (in 1998 the top of GS-14 was about $87K per year). Then Reclass happpend under a Democratic White House. Never say never. These new people can play their cards well over time and make history repeat itself.

 

[Nevets]

The highest GS pay scale GS 15 Step 10 is higher than the maximum level pay on the ATSPP by far. I think the B scalers would like to back to the GS now. Its not that bad for those on the A scale. Its only bad for those who began on the A scale and then got frozen in that pay scale until the B scale caught up (develepmentals in the transition). They were given a job offer with a set of work rules and pay only for the FAA to unilaterally change the offer on them midstream.

By the way, comparing captains to first officers is more like comparing a develepmental who has only completed their D sides to a CPC. So there is a difference. The captain is the only person who has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight and thus carry the burden of responsibility. There are first officers who make more than captains. Its not about pay - apples to bananas comparison.

 

[dickburns]

atl-pilot,

correct, you didn't know you'd make GS-14 $, but most of the folks that got hired in 2005/2006 received OFFICIAL PAPERWORK saying how much $ they'd make, in accordance with the AT Pay Plan, and they're not longer gonna make that $, that is a slap in the face, and a lie by the faa. instead, they're gonna make less $ (but don't get me wrong, still GOOD $$) and on the current scale, never have a chance of making the same $ as their coworkers.

*that* is messed up.

 

[Cptn2b]

I have some questions about ATC jobs for those who care to reply. I am a 2-year FO at a regional and I am looking to get out due to the unstable nature of the industry. My wife and I would also like to move back to Oklahoma City where we are from. 1. What qualifications do you need to get an ATC job and how do you begin the process? 2. What kind of days off per week/month do you get and what kind of shifts will you work at first? 3. How much vacation time? 4. If I am wanting to live in OKC how much say do I have about where I live and how are the "positions" allocated? Thanks