ATA Airlines Announces Suspension of Service to/from Denver, Indianapolis and San Jua

[Wesb737fo]

Hey guys,

It is what it is. You can't blame SWA for being smart. Yes, it would have been nice to see an ATA/AWA merger but that didn't and isn't going to happen. If fuel prices hadn't gone from $ 1.10 to around $ 2.10 we wouldn't be having this discussion. Also, I would think again before blaming other airlines for the destruction of ATA. There are alot of reasons this is happening. If SWA had not stepped in, ATA would be gone already. If you care to do any research on SWA, you will note that every dirty trick in the book was used to try and put them out of business. They seem to have built a better mouse trap.

Just my two cents (IMHFO)

 

[Dizel8]

It is correct, that SWA has a great mousetrap, however, having said that, I am not sure, that they wants to be seen as engaging in dirty "politics".

Part of the reason SWA ended up with ATA was due to demands from Mayor Daley, those demands included no or minor joblosses at MDW. Now why he was making demands I do not know, I think he held a bit of power over the gates. Well, it seems that SWA is slowly dismantling ATA, which of course causes job losses.

IIRC, I think SWA is retrofitting the fleet with overwater equipment, I believe I read that here or somewehere else. If that is indeed the case, then I would not be surprised if SJU appears on the SWA routemap. I am sure someone at SWA would have an idea on this and whether or not they are pursuing ETOPS, in which case Hawaii disappears.

The only thing ATA has, that SWA cannot easily aquire is the heavy lift for the AMC charters or the slots/gates at LGA. The AMC charters are supposedly profitable and probably will be so, untill the conflict in Iraq is over, although, they could probably sell/ transfer/subcontract those to say World.

The slots at LGA might be a bigger problem, since they belong to ATA. If ATA ceases to be, the slots will revert, if I am not mistaken, to the Port Authority.
If that is indeed the case, then based upon the passenger loads on Song and jetBlue to FL, a market SWA serves, I am sure SWA would very much like to get into LGA. Further, I have little doubt, that the current route, MDW-LGA as served by ATA does reasonably well. Islip is a poor substitute for the business traveller.

At the same time, SWA is fighting the Wright Amendment. They may end up being successful, but at the same time, they are probably counting on a bit of "SWA:The peoples airline". Well, you might just inflame a few politicians to blustering rhetoric, if the true nature of SWA dealings with ATA sees the light of day.

Of a more personal nature, due to the fact that I have a couple of friends at ATA, I am saddened, that so very few ATA pilots have managed to get on with SWA. Considering that many fly the same airplanes and the same passengers, why SWA have allowed so few a job, for some reason, that just doesn't sit right with me.

Well, there is my three cents

 

[HalinTexas]

Less than 10 furloughed ATA pilots, of the 50-60 that were qualified, were hired as a result of the preferential interview that expired in April. About 5 have been hired outside of this opportunity. The hiring rate for those that have interviewed at SWA in the last year has been less than one in five.


ETOPS is NOT easily obtained, nor is international operations outside of tourist destinations if a given airline has never done so. North Atlantic Ops. is pretty damn hard to get as well.


The only thing that is keeping ATA's doors open is somewhere, someone sees an opportunity. We do not service enough cities domestically to stay in business. It appears from our BK filings this week that cash will actually be increasing over the next month. BK filings also show that a B767-300 should be showing up soon. This could be good news if we can secure more of them.


We all knew that DEN was going away, once SWA moved in. Loads were too good, and most were codeshares. DEN-PHX was successful the first week. IND had been dead for over a year. No suprise there. SJU is a surprise. SWA must planning on going in soon. They have overwater equiped aircraft already.

We have approx. 850 active pilots on the list. Down from 1100. Another 100-200 to be furloughed beginning in Jan. (100 confirmed with the likelihood of more coming)

We've heard that there is more news coming in the next week. Stay tuned. Just remember, it's A-T-A not A-T-who?

 

[SWA/FO]

Southwest is not to blame. We are not going to sit back and watch someone else make a move (Ie..AirTran..JetBlue).

I happen to think its a pretty sad turn of events at ATA, a bunch of great folks there... Now, I know none of you will believe me since I work for SWA and "I'm on top of the world", "the big fish", "the 800 pound gorilla" and "I'm arrogant"... But I believe SWA believed in the CODE SHARE, which was/is a business relationship. I guess the game plan changed along the way, be it NWA, Fuel prices or Us....who knows.

ATA was not able to recover, hold up their share of the code share, again who knows? So SWA has made some moves...we are going into Denver.....thats all I have heard so far? We are not going into any other city announced? no. (will we? who knows). Will every furloughed pilot from ATA get a job with SWA? Probably not... Will every furloughed ATA pilot get a job with AWA or Air Tran probably not.

 

[SWA/FO]

We don't have life rafts....only the vests.

 

[rudderdog]

If SWA had not stepped in, ATA would be gone already. (IMHFO)

Who the hell do you think made the merger not happen???......If SWA had not stepped in, ATA would be merging with AWA....not dying a slow death.

 

[HalinTexas]

I don't believe anyone at SWA, managment wise, gives a dman about ATA. We are/were the sacrificial lamb to keep Airtran (or anyone else) out of MDW. There may be a few in the upper echelons that see potential in aligning themselves with a turnkey global operator, but that requires "coloring outside the box." Too bad. With SWAPA's merger policy, there could have been some senior (or maybe junior) crews taking a B737 to KEF or doing BUD-KWI turns on the L10 or B757. Pretty barmaids in BUD I hear.

ATA/AWA could have worked. However, I don't believe Parker wanted the B737 leases/airplanes, since AWA was phasing theirs out. I've heard that this was the first domino to fall, resulting in the whole deal falling through.

All of this is conjecture. SWA has many irons in the fire. Playing several hands with all the cards close to the chest. They've always played that way. LAX and PHL ops., WA repeal fight, BFI plan, MDW growth, now DEN. Who knows what's in store with GK driving. :nuts:

 

[HalinTexas]

We don't have life rafts....only the vests.

Rafts fit in the overheads.

Other equipment can be stowed elsewhere.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Less than 10 furloughed ATA pilots, of the 50-60 that were qualified, were hired as a result of the preferential interview that expired in April. About 5 have been hired outside of this opportunity. The hiring rate for those that have interviewed at SWA in the last year has been less than one in five.

We all knew that DEN was going away, once SWA moved in. Loads were too good, and most were codeshares. DEN-PHX was successful the first week. IND had been dead for over a year. No suprise there. SJU is a surprise. SWA must planning on going in soon. They have overwater equiped aircraft already.

We have approx. 850 active pilots on the list. Down from 1100. Another 100-200 to be furloughed beginning in Jan. (100 confirmed with the likelihood of more coming)

We've heard that there is more news coming in the next week. Stay tuned. Just remember, it's A-T-A not A-T-who?

I am surprised and truly saddened by the news about ATA's further shrinkage. The interview statistics are shocking. I hope the 767 deal goes thru. Focus on international or military charter would really help right now.

I don't think SWA has a say in where ATA flies. I don't think the companies are that closely linked. That is why, I'm assuming, SWA feels free to encroach on ATA's profitable routes.

 

[HalinTexas]

I don't think SWA has a say in where ATA flies. I don't think the companies are that closely linked.

I disagree, but I have no evidence other than coincidence and correlation.

2 + 2 still equals 4 at ATA.

But don't ask them anything about 10. They will lose it!

 

[Wesb737fo]

Hal,

I agree with most of your observations. I don't know about the interview stats because I haven't taken the time to add them up.

Rudderdog, do you actually think SWA would let AirTran or AWA get those gates. I suppose my post wasn't entirely clear, however, I will say again, you can't blame SWA for being smart. I can't blame you for being angry, but, at this point, you take the cards you are dealt and make your best hand. My guess is I will be gone before you.

best of luck to all

 

[rudderdog]

I see what you're saying about SWA being smart. How true and who can blame them. I was just stating the fact that the AWA deal was so close to being done and SWA scuttled it. When it comes right down to it, it was their fault. Btw, I'm gone already, having more fun than ever.

 

[capt. megadeth]

I don't believe anyone at SWA, managment wise, gives a dman about ATA. We are/were the sacrificial lamb to keep Airtran (or anyone else) out of MDW. There may be a few in the upper echelons that see potential in aligning themselves with a turnkey global operator, but that requires "coloring outside the box." Too bad. With SWAPA's merger policy, there could have been some senior (or maybe junior) crews taking a B737 to KEF or doing BUD-KWI turns on the L10 or B757. Pretty barmaids in BUD I hear.

:nuts:

Of course noone in management gives a $hit about ATA. They are the sacrificial lamb to keep the competition out. I realize business is business. If ATA management didn't screw up.....SWA would never have had the opportunity to do all this. The thing that pisses me off is all the kool-aid drinkers at SWA that think their airline is all FUKIN KUMBAYA and crap! WAKE UP AND SMELL THE JET-A PEOPLE! If SWA was all rosey and friendly, they would have hired more ATA guys/gals and the preferential interviews would have continued. They also would have at least given the qualified C8 pilots a pref. interview before all of them went out and spent $8000 on a type only to get rejected later.

Now excuse me....I have to go take my blood pressure meds now.

 

[jetalc]

ATA pulling out of Denver sucks - I always enjoyed commuting on them when one of our own flights wasn't for another couple of hours. They have always been tremendously kind and professional to me.

 

[Special Ed]

Hey Mega...I wish you'd taken your meds before you made your post... perhaps now that your medicated, you can explain to everyone why SWA OWES you a job, or even a preferential interview above say, a Military pilot, whose last 7 years have been spent inhaling sand & enjoying the dry heat, Or a US Air guy, who, after 10 years of gringing it out on the line watched his future being pee'd away by management. Perhaps you feel you should be in front of a commuter or freight guy, who fly barely legal schedules and crap equipment with the hopes of moving on...
SW management is responsible ONLY to SW Employees, sorry if you are working at an airline that couldn't turn a profit, but stop whining that it's someone elses management group that hosed you guys. Face it, you needed a merger, buyout or some other white knight to come along and save your company, because it wasn't going to make it on its own... Sorry SW didn't hire many ATA people, but the codeshare and cash infusion from SW kept YOUR paycheck coming for much longer than would have happened if you'd had to stand alone. Your attitude reminds me of a hitchhiker I picked up a long time ago in west Texas... hotter than H#ll, but the guy starts griping that my A/C isnt working.
Pilots were interviewed without having to buy a type... in fact, the standard MO for a guy without a type is that he/she is hired, then given 6 mo's to get the type... Or were you talking about the ALREADY typed 737 guys at ATA... Hmmm, yea, I'd bet ATA paid for those types, during upgrade.
As far as preferential interviews, seems pretty charitable by SW... they didn't do it for WestPac guys when SW got 4 of their airplanes.
Lastly, I'm tired of the attitude that you presented that someone OWES you something. SWA IS a kumbaya company because it's lead by the very best management team in the business, and takes care of their employees, but thats where the responsibility stops. Evidently, You want to work there too, or you wouldn't be so pissed... but if you want to go to work for a charity, perhaps the Red Cross is hiring. Don't blame SW because you didn't get a share of the pie that they work very hard to get. The really good news is I'm fairly certain that SW didn't come out and put a padlock on your mailbox. Your free to go to work for anyone thats hiring (and that will hire you), or are you mad at FedEx, UPS, and everyone else that didn't give you a preferential interview.
I've met a lot of ATA guys, and they are a fine group, really excellent... I hope you attitude is pretty isolated.
Best of luck to everyone,
Ed