Astra SP vs Citation III

[cptsesso]

We are trying to decide between these two, so lets not waste time throwing in other aircraft.

Conditions are east coast, S.L., 5500ft rnwy. Trips consist of east coast, midwest, and some west coast.

Which would you recommend and give reasons.

Also, the Astra is looking to be about $1.4m above the Citation, so figure that into your recommendation.

Thanks.

 

[sonicyouth]

You get more range with the Astra, but narrower cabin I believe. SPX can be had for 8-9 mil. Coast to coast year round. No APU on some though.

 

[JJET44]

I thought the Astra was a rwy hog. I could be wrong.

 

[X-Wind]

Astra/SP with extension tanks has good performance and range. A little under powered relative to the SPX/G100. It does have some CG issues with full fuel and Pax.
With extension tanks at LRC its a 6 hour flight but a 4 hour cabin..In other words its a narrow cabin...

Our company has one for sale, its being replaced by a G100...
Sorry no CIII time.
Good Luck

 

[skyismyoffice]

I thought the Astra was a rwy hog. I could be wrong.

So is the III. Better range with the Astra. Don't know about the Astra, but the III can be a MX nightmare. If you are set on a C650 consider a VII - They worked out all the kinks from the III and VI.

 

[svcta]

I've flown an SP a few times, all my Astra time is in SPX so I'll speak of that.....

Astra SPX isn't what I'd consider a runway hog. It performs well and has good legs on reasonable fuel burn and the one that I flew was really low time, but didn't seem too expensive to own. It is for sale, a real nice airframe if you're looking, 1300ish TTAF)

It's weak spot is absolutely the narrow cabin, but if you're not routinely flying 4+ hours then it's probably not too big a deal.

No Citation time to speak of, so I can't help there. But I think at least an SPX/G100 would fit your mission well.

 

[hawkerjet]

While I haven't flown the Astra you might want to compare the manufacturer support between the two. Gulfstream is legendary for it's support.

 

[X-Wind]

Check this site out, it will answer allot of your questions.

http://www.marfun.net/performance.html

 

[Tgaug6300]

Curious as to why those two aircraft?

 

[CopilotDoug]

...but the III can be a MX nightmare. If you are set on a C650 consider a VII - They worked out all the kinks from the III and VI.

+1 for the III comment. My previous operator had a Citation III for 3 or 4 months and it was down for mx the majority of its tenure. Didn't make one trip without a mechanical (ACM bearing failure---smoke in cabin/cockpit, Hydraulic Leak, Radar failure...)

In talking with the pilots of it, it had range issues too (many times planning a fuel stop)

You can pick them up for a SWEET deal...for a reason, IMO

 

[CapnVegetto]

I've got some III time.

Pros: It's FAST. it'll run between .82 and .85 mach all day long. Slow to climb up but hauls ass once it's up there.

Good range, but coast to coast East to West won't happen.

Nice big cabin. The III probably will have an APU, but it's a crappy APU that you can ONLY use on the ground.

TONS of baggage space.

Cons: It's a BAD runway hog, especially high and hot. A 5,500 foot runway is going to limit you in the summertime. If you lose an engine, you'd better have an interstate in front of you.

Never flown an Astra, but when I researched it for a guy, I found that the Astra SPX beat the piss out of everything out there as far as overall performance, especially runway performance. The only thing that beat it is the Citation Excel. But like was previously said, the cabin is TINY.

Hope this helps.

 

[Lead Sled]

Early s/n Citation III are "maintenance intensive". As far as bang for the buck, there is probably no better mid-size jet out there than the Astra SP.

LS

 

[ditchpilot]

astra vs citation III

Look at the westwind II and save 3mill.
None of the maint issues of the citation.

 

[cptsesso]

Thanks for all of the replies. I think we are going with the Astra. The boss loves the III's cabin but we think the maintenance factor and the added range is a big plus for the Astra. Besides, it is usually just him in the back and sometimes 1 or 2 others, so a smaller cabin is not too critical.

Ditchpilot, we had a WWI then a II. The II was a nice plane and a great "bang for the buck" but the resale for them is very weak.

 

[400A]

Thanks for all of the replies. I think we are going with the Astra. The boss loves the III's cabin but we think the maintenance factor and the added range is a big plus for the Astra. Besides, it is usually just him in the back and sometimes 1 or 2 others, so a smaller cabin is not too critical.

Ditchpilot, we had a WWI then a II. The II was a nice plane and a great "bang for the buck" but the resale for them is very weak.

The Astra will suffer the same resale issues, but most who operate them like them. We have one based with us that operates 6-800 hours a year and runs like a Timex. There are several out there with an APU.

 

[Lead Sled]

The Astra will suffer the same resale issues, but most who operate them like them. We have one based with us that operates 6-800 hours a year and runs like a Timex. There are several out there with an APU.

It's been a couple of years since I was involved in selling an Astra, but I've been involved to one degree or another with the selling and acquisition of several. It's tough in today's market for any airplane, but you'll have no problem with a clean, well maintained Astra. There will always be someone who appreciates the value and "bang for the buck" that they represent - especially in today's world of $$$ fuel. As a side note, I've never been around one (4,000 hours of Astra time) that didn't clear the owner a few dollars when it came time to sell. The biggest favor that you can do is get a good pre-purchase evaluation by some one who really knows the airplane. There are a few shops around the country that I would recommend. The best one would be Duncan Aviation in Lincoln NE.

LS

 

[snow-back]

A couple of quick notes about the Astra SP vs the SPX/G100. Most SPX/G100s will have an APU which is very nice. Additionally, the SPX has more powerful engines which increases the performance considerably. It seems counterintuitive, but our G100 gets better fuel economy than our SPs as we are able to usually go right to the low 40s, burn less fuel and go faster. Finally, the Proline on the G100 is head and shoulders above the SP...no comparison.

That said, I am constantly impressed with the abilities of the Astra SP. We've had ours non-stop from SAV to PDX, SJC, SAN, LGB and BFI...ugh!

 

[G100F16]

We've had ours non-stop from SAV to PDX, SJC, SAN, LGB and BFI...ugh!

Snowback - did you fly all of those legs yourself? Word on the block is you're quite the flying hog!

Good info...and nice avatar!

 

[NCherches]

If I was out east I would want the one with better avionics!