ASTAR'S Race to the Bottom

[AV8OR]

"I guess we can agree to dissagree?"


We almost always seem to do just that.

 

[LarryinTN]

Despite the rhetoric on this board and others, over typical stage lengths the -9 will carry ¾’s the freight of the 727 while burning only 2/3’s the fuel and using only 2 crew.

Actually, it's less than 2/3's the fuel.

The 727's have the -15 and -17 engines while our DC9's have -7, -9, -11, and -15 engines. The smaller engines burn less than the bigger engines.

 

[LarryinTN]

But I would be truly stunned to see 9's get cut for doors

A number of the DC9's already have doors. They are the old freighters from the Navy.

The doors are currently deactivated but there has occasionally been talk of reactivating them for various charter opportunities, none of which have ever materialized.

 

[hvydriver]

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 50
Civ/Mil: Civilian (almost went AF though...doesn't that count?)
A/C Flown: You name it, I've flown it
Ratings: Yep, I've got 'em!
Total Time: 10K +
Posts: 50


ASTAR'S Race to the Bottom
ASTAR'S Race to the Bottom! Attention all pilots/union members:

In an effort to influence DHL’s decision on the home for the 6 future 767-300 aircraft purchased from Boeing, the ASTAR MEC has executed the "race to the bottom" plan. In order to prevent these aircraft from landing at Atlas, Polar, ABX, or even EAT, the ASTAR MEC leadership is currently negotiating concessions in pay and work rules. This means they are willing to fly a heavy for less pay than the narrow body pay. This plan violates several ALPA national codes of ethic and at least one resolution.

The industry would like to thank you.
__________________


I guess we can agree to dissagree?

I can agree with you that attempting to defend the above statement, esp. in light of the fact there has been nothing close to the way of apology from the stay at home mom that made it, is foolish. Barring that, yes, I suppose we'll agree to disagree.

 

[DC8CRIVER]

The only thing "proved" is a huge dissagreement as to the facts as each group has been told them. Lots of phone calls between Mec's before either pilot group even heard of the proposal. I think that is what Avatrix was trying to say.

nitedog,

Please reread all of AVIATRIX's posts and reconsider your defense of her position. As all the discussions in question were between our owners and our MEC, unless AVIATRIX is on our MEC, she would not have anything even close to a first hand report of what those discussions contained.

What she clearly did was to take a shred of a rumor and post it in the most defamatory way on as many message boards as was possible. Now, whether the information she posted was given to her incorrectly or she herself twisted the information is irrelevant. The fact remains that what precisely happened was known to the Astar MEC and the Astar pilots only and not precisely known by her. So, without verifying her facts to any length whatsoever, she chose to slander and defame our pilot group in the most profane and public way possible. If I were to make a post like the one she made, I'd have to be dead nuts positively certain of ALL of my facts before I puked that kind of poison all over several hundred professional pilots.

It would be as though Joe Hete wrote a letter to your union asking if he could paint swastikas on the tails of your airplanes and then one of our pilots posting for all the world to see that all ABX pilots were Nazi's - which would obviously not be the case.

The "transparency" our MEC discussed to was in reference to the Astar MEC's communications with the Astar pilots - not with your pilots or your union. Quite frankly, I do not believe that any of our union's activities are any business of ABX's until our plans are public record. It is a sign of the integrity of our MEC that they provide your union with anything at all prior to finalization. Attacks like AVIATRIX's do great harm to the efforts of our unions efforts to establish an open line of communication. She is inflicting severe damage to the ABX and Astar unions collective efforts to rally against DHL corporate anti union tactics.

And just to be perfectly clear, the crap posted by your fellow pilot had nothing at all to do with our pilot group's decision to turn down the offer made by Astar management. It is pathetic to think that she would flatter herself with such megalomaniacal sewage. It is my belief that she acted alone and is an infinitesimal representation of the ABX pilot group's regard of Astar pilot's integrity. For sure we have our differences, but I've never met an ABX pilot who would spit in the face of Astar pilots the way she has.

In commercial aviation, one of the most important and valuable traits of a professional pilot is the ability to admit a mistake and take corrective actions. Apparently, that character trait is painfully absent in one of your pilots.

 

[nitefr8dog]

nitedog,

Please reread all of AVIATRIX's posts and reconsider your defense of her position. As all the discussions in question were between our owners and our MEC, unless AVIATRIX is on our MEC, she would not have anything even close to a first hand report of what those discussions contained.

What she clearly did was to take a shred of a rumor and post it in the most defamatory way on as many message boards as was possible. Now, whether the information she posted was given to her incorrectly or she herself twisted the information is irrelevant. The fact remains that what precisely happened was known to the Astar MEC and the Astar pilots only and not precisely known by her. So, without verifying her facts to any length whatsoever, she chose to slander and defame our pilot group in the most profane and public way possible. If I were to make a post like the one she made, I'd have to be dead nuts positively certain of ALL of my facts before I puked that kind of poison all over several hundred professional pilots.

It would be as though Joe Hete wrote a letter to your union asking if he could paint swastikas on the tails of your airplanes and then one of our pilots posting for all the world to see that all ABX pilots were Nazi's - which would obviously not be the case.

The "transparency" our MEC discussed to was in reference to the Astar MEC's communications with the Astar pilots - not with your pilots or your union. Quite frankly, I do not believe that any of our union's activities are any business of ABX's until our plans are public record. It is a sign of the integrity of our MEC that they provide your union with anything at all prior to finalization. Attacks like AVIATRIX's do great harm to the efforts of our unions efforts to establish an open line of communication. She is inflicting severe damage to the ABX and Astar unions collective efforts to rally against DHL corporate anti union tactics.

And just to be perfectly clear, the crap posted by your fellow pilot had nothing at all to do with our pilot group's decision to turn down the offer made by Astar management. It is pathetic to think that she would flatter herself with such megalomaniacal sewage. It is my belief that she acted alone and is an infinitesimal representation of the ABX pilot group's regard of Astar pilot's integrity. For sure we have our differences, but I've never met an ABX pilot who would spit in the face of Astar pilots the way she has.

In commercial aviation, one of the most important and valuable traits of a professional pilot is the ability to admit a mistake and take corrective actions. Apparently, that character trait is painfully absent in one of your pilots.

Hvy, that would also be true unless Astar Mec was talking to Abx Mec before either pilot group and Trix had first hand knowledge of the conversation. You only assume she did not know the details of the conversations!

 

[DC8CRIVER]

Hvy, that would also be true unless Astar Mec was talking to Abx Mec before either pilot group and Trix had first hand knowledge of the conversation. You only assume she did not know the details of the conversations!

nitedog,

Again - don't be quite so eager to defend AVIATRIX! The text of her original message said:

"ASTAR'S Race to the Bottom! Attention all pilots/union members:
In an effort to influence DHL’s decision on the home for the 6 future 767-300 aircraft purchased from Boeing, the ASTAR MEC has executed the "race to the bottom" plan. In order to prevent these aircraft from landing at Atlas, Polar, ABX, or even EAT, the ASTAR MEC leadership is currently negotiating concessions in pay and work rules. This means they are willing to fly a heavy for less pay than the narrow body pay. This plan violates several ALPA national codes of ethic and at least one resolution.
The industry would like to thank you."

While the internal workings of our pilot group and our MEC are really nobody else's business, I can tell you that our company and our union (just like every other airline/pilot group in the country - including ABX) are constantly negotiating work rule, system, and fleet changes. During some of these discussions, the subject of the new 76's came up and the company asked if the union would accept work rule changes and pay concessions. The union said that work rule changes (deadhead travel adjustments, day/night transition changes, etc.) may be negotiable and would probably necessitate pilot ratification, BUT they said to the company, in pilot messages, and in meetings that PAY CONCESSIONS WERE OFF OF THE TABLE. PERIOD. They said this on numerous occasions and were clear and unwavering about it. Then Dasburg writes his letter and TRIX smears her post all over the internet. Then our MEC meets with the company, again says no, meets with the pilots who agree with the decision, and the issue is closed.

She accuses our MEC of executing a "race to the bottom" on April 22. The fact is that our Negotiating team did not even MEET with the Astar management until the 22nd. Their response to our pilot group came in the days after this meeting. Her post was in response to a letter that John Dasburg had written to our MEC Chairman and is factually incorrect. AT NO TIME did our MEC ever inform the ABX union that we were taking pay concessions. NEVER HAPPENED. She lied on purpose and she knows she was wrong - yet she hasn't the first shred if integrity required to apologize. Unfortunately, for her to do so would also mean that she would admit that what she posted was not a mistake, it was a purposeful lie and she posted this lie with complete knowledge of what she was doing.

She tried to instigate a major brawl between our pilot groups at a time when tensions are high. Disgusting acts like hers are the last thing either of our pilot groups need right now. You guys need to slap a muzzle on her before she ignites this powder keg.

Get your facts straight before you defend her again. I'm willing to listen to knowledgeable and intelligent discourse but not idle speculation that this witch knows something that she clearly does not.

D8C

 

[nitefr8dog]

nitedog,

Again - don't be quite so eager to defend AVIATRIX! The text of her original message said:

"ASTAR'S Race to the Bottom! Attention all pilots/union members:
In an effort to influence DHL’s decision on the home for the 6 future 767-300 aircraft purchased from Boeing, the ASTAR MEC has executed the "race to the bottom" plan. In order to prevent these aircraft from landing at Atlas, Polar, ABX, or even EAT, the ASTAR MEC leadership is currently negotiating concessions in pay and work rules. This means they are willing to fly a heavy for less pay than the narrow body pay. This plan violates several ALPA national codes of ethic and at least one resolution.
The industry would like to thank you."

While the internal workings of our pilot group and our MEC are really nobody else's business, I can tell you that our company and our union (just like every other airline/pilot group in the country - including ABX) are constantly negotiating work rule, system, and fleet changes. During some of these discussions, the subject of the new 76's came up and the company asked if the union would accept work rule changes and pay concessions. The union said that work rule changes (deadhead travel adjustments, day/night transition changes, etc.) may be negotiable and would probably necessitate pilot ratification, BUT they said to the company, in pilot messages, and in meetings that PAY CONCESSIONS WERE OFF OF THE TABLE. PERIOD. They said this on numerous occasions and were clear and unwavering about it. Then Dasburg writes his letter and TRIX smears her post all over the internet. Then our MEC meets with the company, again says no, meets with the pilots who agree with the decision, and the issue is closed.

She accuses our MEC of executing a "race to the bottom" on April 22. The fact is that our Negotiating team did not even MEET with the Astar management until the 22nd. Their response to our pilot group came in the days after this meeting. Her post was in response to a letter that John Dasburg had written to our MEC Chairman and is factually incorrect. AT NO TIME did our MEC ever inform the ABX union that we were taking pay concessions. NEVER HAPPENED. She lied on purpose and she knows she was wrong - yet she hasn't the first shred if integrity required to apologize. Unfortunately, for her to do so would also mean that she would admit that what she posted was not a mistake, it was a purposeful lie and she posted this lie with complete knowledge of what she was doing.

She tried to instigate a major brawl between our pilot groups at a time when tensions are high. Disgusting acts like hers are the last thing either of our pilot groups need right now. You guys need to slap a muzzle on her before she ignites this powder keg.

Get your facts straight before you defend her again. I'm willing to listen to knowledgeable and intelligent discourse but not idle speculation that this witch knows something that she clearly does not.

D8C

Hvy, my facts are crystal clear, what I did not realize is you are the one who decides who I can "defend " thank you for clearing that up!

 

[DC8CRIVER]

Hvy, my facts are crystal clear, what I did not realize is you are the one who decides who I can "defend " thank you for clearing that up!

Not telling you who you can defend...
"Get your facts straight before you defend her again."
Just trying to avoid major problems between our groups that are caused by bad information and an evil agenda. Tell me how you can have "crystal clear" facts when you are not directly involved in our union...

 

[AV8OR]

"Just trying to avoid major problems between our groups that are caused by bad information and an evil agenda."

DC8CRIVER,

I'm afraid the horse has been outa the barn on that one for some time, due to DHL's beautiful nightmare and us having the audacity to try and enforce our CBA.

Amazing how the "facts" on knowing everything regarding DHL, our on time performance, our CBA, any negotiations between us and our management, etc. always seem to be rock solid at 1224. I guess the reason our vision is so clouded by comparison is because we're "not CATII".