Astar Cargo Help PLEASE!!!!!

[erichartmann]

Yep, that's me. And true. Otherwise, the fabulous french nightmare would have been on the ramp along with all those wunnerful DC9's. Presuming they got in the air.

I have personally experienced the ILN Tower declaring CATII ops., use 22R, and all the while 22L was severe clear. (I know it was ducks walking this past weekend for both runways. This was a fog bank last winter.) And have the tower refuse my request for a visual approach to 22L. And 22R was visible the whole way down the chute as well. But, it was "CATII". No flames, just what happened.

I've experienced much the same at other airports, LAX and BOS spring to mind. Had to abandon the approach at LAX two or three times as it went up and back down on 24R. Finally got smart and asked what it was doing on 25L/R. Same thing in BOS. The fog bank and rolled up over 4L/R, mins were reported but not there (the fog hadn't reached the RVR) while 15R was well above mins.

Don't know why they wouldn't let you change runways at ILN. I don't believe the conspiracy stuff. Before you guys came the same sort of thing happened. They seem to have their little plan in mind, we don't see it, and they won't show it to us.

 

[hvydriver]

I've experienced much the same at other airports, LAX and BOS spring to mind. Had to abandon the approach at LAX two or three times as it went up and back down on 24R. Finally got smart and asked what it was doing on 25L/R. Same thing in BOS. The fog bank and rolled up over 4L/R, mins were reported but not there (the fog hadn't reached the RVR) while 15R was well above mins.

Don't know why they wouldn't let you change runways at ILN. I don't believe the conspiracy stuff. Before you guys came the same sort of thing happened. They seem to have their little plan in mind, we don't see it, and they won't show it to us.

Eric,

I don't mean to imply there is a "conspiracy" as some have said. I prefer to view it as a pure chaos theory environment, sprinkled with a dash of idiocy with the tower ops. Some of it perhaps is them having to deal with not having their own approach/departure control and having to coordinate that with DAY. Who knows. It's beyond frustrating.

 

[LarryinTN]

Except we didn't give on the double/day/night transition.

Then how did you operate the flight? ILN-SFO is daytime, SFO-LAX-JFK is night, and JFK-ILN is daytime again. That's two day/night transitions.

We operated it, for a while, without two day/night transitions by having the ILN-SFO crew return on a SFO-ILN day flight. The SFO-LAX-JFK legs were flown by a crew that had flight ILN-SFO on the night system. The arriving JFK on the SFO-LAX-JFK legs would limo to EWR and fly a night EWR-ILN flight. Lastly, the JFK-ILN trip was flown by yet another crew but I don't remember where they came from. In any case, none of the crews had a double day/night transitions but the trips were not very good, short layovers, etc., which was a lot more fatiguing than doing the full transcon. In the end it was a better trip for the crews (from a rest perspective) to waive the double day/night transition restriction as that restriction was intended to protect against a very different kind of schedule.

And have the tower refuse my request for a visual approach to 22L. And 22R was visible the whole way down the chute as well.

A couple of issues here...

1. The tower can't issue a visual approach clearance. That is done by Dayton approach. They'd have to relay the request to Dayton on the phone and get it from them.

2. Doesn't matter if you can see the runway if the airport's prevailing visibility or reported ceiling is below VFR minimums. Without the required reported visibility Dayton can not issue a visual approach clearance per 7110.65 7-4-3 b.

3. Dayton can not provide vectors to a visual approach unless the reported ceiling is at least 500' above the MVA/MIA per 7110.65 7-4-2.

I've seen a number of instances of shallow fog (MIFG) where the runway is clearly visible from the air but the surface visibility, and RVR readings, are well below minimums. I've held at both FSD and SGF with the runway plainly in sight waiting for the reported vis to improve to minimums. When it did, the runway is clear right up to the point that you enter the fog in the flare and the runway environment suddenly (nearly) disappears.

Some of it perhaps is them having to deal with not having their own approach/departure control and having to coordinate that with DAY.

You can thank the FAA for that. Many years ago, Airborne Express (ABF) paid for the radar site at the ILN airport. Prior to that installation it was non-radar procedures in/out of ILN. i.e. wait for the preceding landing to cancel or hold for release until the preceding departure was in RADAR contact. ABF paid for the remote RADAR installation and feed to Dayton so that they'd have proper RADAR coverage down to the ground but the FAA wouldn't allow the certification of the BRITE RADAR displays in the ILN tower because the tower controllers were not FAA employees (they were ABF employees). This meant that the ILN tower was just a "VFR" tower that couldn't provide IFR separation except through the procedures specified in their letters of agreement with Dayton. This allowed them to launch departures at the specified intervals, give canned clearances in the case of a missed approach, etc., but they couldn't do what any normal FAA tower could do.

I think that they were eventually able to get the BRITE certified but the FAA still doesn't let them do all of the things that an FAA tower would be allowed to do with the level of equipment that they have.

 

[TWA]

They have the displays in the tower, just aren't allowed to use them. Every so often they turn them on to make sure they still work.

 

[LarryinTN]

They have the displays in the tower, just aren't allowed to use them.

Really? I thought they got them certified. What a waste... Don't know why the FAA has such a hang up about it.

 

[shooter]

Look this thread is not for you. I can see that your angry and upset and I completely understand. These anger issues cannot be good for your health.
You have made your point that you do not like Astar WE GET IT. So move along and stop wasting our time with your junk. It just makes you look desperate. ABX isn't going anywhere so relax and try to regain some dignity.

You know fodc8, it is you that has the anger problem. It's called passive anger. You have just posted a remark that abxdx asked for factual figures from. You could not provide them and continued to "act" as if your response was valid. By doing so you are provoking abxdx to aggression then you try and patronize him by saying he is the one that has the anger problem.

You sir, are need of some meds and professional help. Others in your group have been guilty of the same in the past. Is there a coincidental pattern or a real issue that is reason for concern? Hmmmm, things to ponder.

 

[hvydriver]

>You can thank the FAA for that. Many years ago, Airborne Express (ABF) paid for the radar site at the ILN airport. Prior to that installation it was non-radar procedures in/out of ILN. i.e. wait for the preceding landing to cancel or hold for release until the preceding departure was in RADAR contact.<

Wow. That clearly sucks even more than the current deal. How in the world did you guys even get a sort done "back then"?

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

>
Wow. That clearly sucks even more than the current deal. How in the world did you guys even get a sort done "back then"?

With a fleet of medieval siege machines operated by a malleable and obedient tribe of slave labor ruled by an iron-fisted management that refused to let common sense get in the way of its dogma. In other words, same as today really.

 

[hvydriver]

With a fleet of medieval siege machines operated by a malleable and obedient tribe of slave labor ruled by an iron-fisted management that refused to let common sense get in the way of its dogma. In other words, same as today really.

ROFLMAO! Now, that's funny!

 

[TWA]

With a fleet of medieval siege machines operated by a malleable and obedient tribe of slave labor ruled by an iron-fisted management that refused to let common sense get in the way of its dogma. In other words, same as today really.

So they were Catholic?