ASA Uniform Enforcement

[scarlet]

You don't work for AA or UAL=Go there then!!

 

[Swaayze]

Great avatar jeroom.

 

[79%N1]

What I never get, why do guys use the hat, or stop at the hat, to make their point that they don't like it, or that they will dress like a professional when they are treated like one, etc....Why don't you stop wearing the uncomfortable black dress shoes and show up to work in loafers or Nike Labron's? Why don't you wear khaki shorts or a pair of comfortable Levi's? I hate buttoning the top button and wearing a tie (especially in the summer) Why not show your protest by showing up in a golf shirt?

Point is, where is it ok to draw the line at 'I don't like it' or 'it's not comfortable', or 'I don't agree with it'?

Why stop at the hat? Show up in jeans, a gold shirt and tennis shoes, because, after all, it's more comfortable and nobody will confuse you for a bell cap! It is such a cop out! Why do you guys stop at the hat? You love the rest of the uniform, it's just the hat? You just think you can get away with it (and do) so you elect to throw out that part of the companies uniform policy. It makes no sense! I ask guys who show up without the hat, and after all the excuses I say 'why do you wear the pants, shirts, tie and shoes then?

 

[ReverseSensing]

I ask guys who show up without the hat, and after all the excuses I say 'why do you wear the pants, shirts, tie and shoes then?

You really do this? That probably really sets the stage for an enjoyable trip together.

BTW, the hat serves no important functional purpose, unless it is pouring down rain. The brims are too short to keep the sun out of your eyes. They don't keep you cooler; they make you hotter, etc.

Pants, shirts, shoes, even ties (keep your shirt cleaner) all serve a functional purpose. That is the difference.

You are incorrect that everyone not wearing a hat is trying to make some political point. It is simply not true. On some of us, hats are ridiculous-looking beyond description. I refuse to look anymore ridiculous than I already do. Having said that, I think hats look very nice on some people...I'm just not one of them.

 

[79%N1]

But it doesn't matter, unless your company makes it optional. You are supposed to wear it, just like you are supposed to wear black pants, white shirts and ties, show up on time, and have your manuals up to date. You shouldn't get to pick what company polocies you choose to ignore because you don't agree with it or look good in it. I'm sorry, but you are wrong about that and there is no arguement you can make other than guys do it because they can get away with it.

And if I ask someone about it it is because they bring it up or make some statement about it. It is not up to me to tell anyone what to do or enforce a rule. That is for others to do, but when I ask, they have no answer.

Ps. What purpose do epauletts serve? They don't. They are part of a pilot uniform, no more than the hat. Why don't you show up for work without them?

 

[Tomct]

The funny part is that EVERYONE KNEW it was part of the uniform prior to coming here at ASA. The best one is when they use their hat to help pull their bags. Rather than put it on their heads....they make it more of a hassle by holding it in their hand. I know....don't want to ruin that gel set hair!

And Reverse...why don't you ask the crew that had the gear collapse on ship 849 how important THEIR HAT was...IE, the passengers actually KNEW WHO THE CAPTAIN WAS!!!

And finally, WHEN these young pups make Captain....you will see them walking through the terminal with their "Brand New Captains Hat" right on top of their heads. Gee, I wonder why!

 

[ReverseSensing]

But it doesn't matter, unless your company makes it optional. You are supposed to wear it, just like you are supposed to wear black pants, white shirts and ties, show up on time, and have your manuals up to date.

True. But that wasn't what you said. Your logic was that the hat is the same as pants and shirt. It is not. Pants and shirts are functional. Hats are (in my opinion) costume.

You shouldn't get to pick what company polocies you choose to ignore because you don't agree with it or look good in it.

True. But everyone, including you, does it. I happen to pick hats (and a few other things). What do you ignore? (Please don't tell me "nothing.")

I'm sorry, but you are wrong about that and there is no argument you can make other than guys do it because they can get away with it.

Sure there is. I can get away with it. And it's stupid. There, that's at least one other argument.

And if I ask someone about it it is because they bring it up or make some statement about it. It is not up to me to tell anyone what to do or enforce a rule. That is for others to do, but when I ask, they have no answer.

Maybe if they read this thread, they'll have an answer to you now.

Ps. What purpose do epauletts serve? They don't. They are part of a pilot uniform, no more than the hat. Why don't you show up for work without them?

They give me an excuse to appear dumb and clueless.

P.S. I'm a 41-year old FO, don't wear hair product, my haircuts involve numbers like "2" and "4" and still won't wear my hat if I ever get to upgrade.

I'm sure 79% and all the other pro-hat guys look fine in a hat.

 

[xjcaptain]

Never could figure out what the big deal was. You knew what the UNIFORM (meaning the same for everybody) was before you got hired. If you want to assert your individuality, paint pictures on the street corner. You can dress anyway you like. If you are going to take this job, or military, or many others, you know what the rules are when you get hired. If you don't want to abide by them, the door works in both directions. You guys can't actually be surprised when management wants it's employees to comply with a company policy that is nearly universal.....or should I say uniform across the industry.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Never could figure out what the big deal was. You knew what the UNIFORM (meaning the same for everybody) was before you got hired. If you want to assert your individuality, paint pictures on the street corner. You can dress anyway you like. If you are going to take this job, or military, or many others, you know what the rules are when you get hired. If you don't want to abide by them, the door works in both directions. You guys can't actually be surprised when management wants it's employees to comply with a company policy that is nearly universal.....or should I say uniform across the industry.

Everyone always says this, but it's irrelevant. I knew that a hat was required, but I didn't know how bad it looked until I actually put it on for the first time -- 3 months after I got hired. I'll be damned if I'm going to quit a job I enjoy when I can get away with not wearing a hat. No one in management really seems to give a crap -- why should I worry about it?

And hats are not nearly universal -- at least not on the west coast.

P.S. The remainder of my uniform is professionally cleaned and pressed, my shoes are shined, and no friggin' clip-on tie for me. Clip-on ties -- now there's an affront to dignity.

 

[PCL_128]

Everyone always says this, but it's irrelevant. I knew that a hat was required, but I didn't know how bad it looked until I actually put it on for the first time -- 3 months after I got hired.

The hat looks the same on everyone that wears it. The whole "I look bad in the hat" thing is all in your head. Just put the danged thing on and look like a frickin' pilot. Is this really such a big deal?

And hats are not nearly universal -- at least not on the west coast.

Hats were universal in this industry until the new generation of pilots showed up and thought they had the right to change 75 years worth of tradition just because they didn't like it. It starts with the loss of the hat, and before you know it, you'll end up with a uniform that looks like that monstrosity of a uniform that the Virgin America guys are wearing. Looks like something out of a bad Sci-fi movie.

 

[79%N1]

Reverse sesnsing.....

It doesn't matter your opinion on the hat. If it is company policy, wear it. Like I said, If your such a rebel, show up in jeans, Nikes and a T-shirt and prove it. All you have proven is it is really about vanity!

 

[ReverseSensing]

The hat looks the same on everyone that wears it. The whole "I look bad in the hat" thing is all in your head. Just put the danged thing on and look like a frickin' pilot. Is this really such a big deal?

Have you been talking to my counselor? The hat thing has a lot of competition with other things that are "all in my head."

Hats were universal in this industry until the new generation of pilots showed up and thought they had the right to change 75 years worth of tradition just because they didn't like it. It starts with the loss of the hat, and before you know it, you'll end up with a uniform that looks like that monstrosity of a uniform that the Virgin America guys are wearing. Looks like something out of a bad Sci-fi movie.

Why is the "hat" so damned sacrosanct? There are a lot of important traditions that have been flushed, like good pay and pensions, but some people get awfully hung up on looking like a Mexican generalisimo. When, exactly did this "new generation" of pilots who had the gall to think they could change things show up? I never see a SWA pilot wearing a hat. How long they been around? 1 in 6 AS pilots wear the hat -- the airline's been around 75 years.

BTW, if we all end up wearing sci-fi uniforms, my plot for world domination and cheesy uniforms will have succeeded...bwah hah hah hah!

I'm being accused of being vain for NOT wearing a hat...that's priceless.

It's amazing how universal picking and choosing which parts of company policies, manuals or standards we each will comply with is, yet some people feel they are in a position to lecture anyone else who does it. Give it a break.

 

[ReverseSensing]

All you have proven is it is really about vanity!

Unless you claim you follow every single company policy and standard, then right back at you!

Sorry, I'm not all about blind conformity. That kind of mentality leads to smoking holes with beautifully executed checklists recorded until the CVR stops. If that's the way you approach the job. Fine. To each his own.

 

[ReverseSensing]

I thought of a couple of times I'll wear the hat:

If attending the funeral of a fellow pilot.

If walking an informational or strike picket.

Don't ask me why, I just think in these situations, I can swallow my "vanity" and wear the full costume.

Fire away!

 

[PCL_128]

Why is the "hat" so damned sacrosanct?

It's not just the hat. I think the tie, the shoulder boards, the blazer, etc... are all just as important in maintaining a traditional, professional appearance. The hat is just the most common thing that guys think they can ignore from a uniform policy.

 

[PCL_128]

I thought of a couple of times I'll wear the hat:

If attending the funeral of a fellow pilot.

If walking an informational or strike picket.

Don't ask me why, I just think in these situations, I can swallow my "vanity" and wear the full costume.

Fire away!

Your professionalism shouldn't be limited to certain situations. If the hat is appropriate in a picket line or a funeral, then it's appropriate on the line. We shouldn't just decide to look like professionals on special occasions.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Your professionalism shouldn't be limited to certain situations. If the hat is appropriate in a picket line or a funeral, then it's appropriate on the line. We shouldn't just decide to look like professionals on special occasions.

I reject your premise: I don't agree that the hat reflects professionalism. I do think that in some situations, what is customary is important. On the line, I think what is practical is important.

Which is why so many other uniform wearing professions have a "dress" version and a "utility" version. Makes good practical sense.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

no friggin' clip-on tie for me. Clip-on ties -- now there's an affront to dignity.

You'll probably think differently about that if you ever get your tie caught up in something.

I've even stopped rolling up the cuffs on my long sleeve shirts after the cuff once got hooked onto the thrust lever (pulling it forward) and I couldn't get the engine into reverse during landing.

How about these guys who wear 2 rings on each hand and the gold "man bracelet".

 

[79%N1]

Reverse....

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!

It is a company rule! Have I ever neglected a company rule...sure. But the difference is, I don't choose to intentionally ignore a rule. Where do you stop? Maybe tear out any page in the FOM that you don't like. It's a company rule....wear the hat.

 

[Tomct]

Man Reverse...if you are 41, ACT YOUR AGE! If you want to look like one of the many Duche's walking through the airport Without your hat...then by all means...GO AHEAD! You are worse than talking to a 2 year old. " my dad can beat up your dad...blah...blah...blah!"

And by the way....the uniform with "utilities" STILL HAVE TO WEAR HATS!