ASA transferring Sims to SkyWest, furloughing IP's

[~~~^~~~]

Why do you use the term furlough?!

If not, and you are still unhappy or things get worse, then leave..I will!

Others use the term "lay off," or "reduction of staff," or how about "we don't need IP's because we are not going to be training." The choice of words is a matter of symantics. Furlough explains the situation in a term pilots relate to.

I'm all for moving on, just started working on it. However, I would rather it be my choice, not someone else's. ALPA should be protecting my job, not advising me to find another one.

 

[shamrock]

Probably because they had pref bid in there. If thats the deal, I'd go with it along with pref bid. (pref bid ain't a good thing!)

My thoughts exactly.

 

[FL990]

Furlough explains the situation in a term pilots relate to.

With all do respect fin's, furlough implies UNEMPLOYMENT...they are still employed, they are just being sent back to the line...

The reason I am arguing semantics with you is because when pilots see the word furlough, it excites panic...ASA is NOT furloughing anyone, INCLUDING instructors..they are sending them back to the line...and as I said, I think that ultimately, they want to "farm out" as much of the training dept. as possible. After all, why pay a senior instructor pilot $100G's when you can pay a flight safety puke $35G's....(I think this is a terrible phylosophy by the way for many reasons ..which would take an entire separate board to discuss..) It seems sometimes like MGMT has there head shoved so far in the "books" and "numbers", they lose sight of everything else (ie.quality training, safety...etc.)

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Thanks, I will takes that as a compliment. "Scope as we know it" has resulted in a race for the bottom which ASA is losing by trying to keep some semblance of "profession" in professional.

Don't bother, it wasn't meant as a compliment. Its a good think your lawsuit was thrown out of court, or we'd have mesa to contend with flying 777's across the atlantic!

 

[Dodge]

Don't bother, it wasn't meant as a compliment. Its a good think your lawsuit was thrown out of court, or we'd have mesa to contend with flying 777's across the atlantic!

I believe mainline pilots are gonna have that problem regardless. Mainline management has their eyes set on the 150 seat A/C next to go to the "regionals/commuters". File BK again, assuming they get out, demand more concessions, file 1113c's, pilots get scared, give away more flying to "fight another day!!!"

Management only needs to run one play over and over until the defense proves they can stop it. The defense (pilots) can stop it, but someone has to sack up. So far, the cross section of mainline pilots have been in Santa Claus mode giving stuff away. I can't stand the RJDC crap either, but I am also tired of watching the mainline pilots aiding management in turning this profession into WalMart.

 

[Dodge]

Sorry this topic got sidetracked.

Stay tough ASA.

 

[atrdriver]

With all do respect fin's, furlough implies UNEMPLOYMENT...they are still employed, they are just being sent back to the line...

The reason I am arguing semantics with you is because when pilots see the word furlough, it excites panic...ASA is NOT furloughing anyone, INCLUDING instructors..they are sending them back to the line...and as I said, I think that ultimately, they want to "farm out" as much of the training dept. as possible. After all, why pay a senior instructor pilot $100G's when you can pay a flight safety puke $35G's....(I think this is a terrible phylosophy by the way for many reasons ..which would take an entire separate board to discuss..) It seems sometimes like MGMT has there head shoved so far in the "books" and "numbers", they lose sight of everything else (ie.quality training, safety...etc.)

Remember when FSI was doing the 120 training? That right there is reason enough to pay the instructors everything that they get. You farm training out to the lowest bidder you will have the same thing that we have on the ramp.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Don't bother, it wasn't meant as a compliment. Its a good think your lawsuit was thrown out of court, or we'd have mesa to contend with flying 777's across the atlantic!

Wrong again - it wasn't thrown out. Discovery and Depositions will be completed this fall.

Unfortunately the discovery phase has gone very well for the Plaintiffs. It was always my hope that ALPA would use the lawsuit as an excuse to reform its behavior. The representational lawsuit was, and is, a tool of last resort. Our hope continues to be that ALPA will change and in the process allow airlines like ASA the full benefit of participation in The Pilots' Union.

If ALPA National (on the order of the Delta MEC) had not stopped us, I can honestly say Mesa and Freedom would not be parking on C Concourse right now.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Hey guys,

It's obvious this may be the start of the end. The first transfer of assets.

We can sit here and watch our flying go to Skywest or whomever.

Or we can make it painfully expensive for the company to do so.

Or we can take a paycut and then wait for the next whipsaw.

Crappy choices if you ask me.

Yes they are crappy choices. These crappy choices are brought to you by ALPA's total failure to deal with scope/whipsaw/portfolio fee-for-departure. ALPA and the mainline pilots ignored the problem, used our jobs as bargaining chips, and have made the problem worse by creating more alter-ego carriers that work for less than us - MidAtlantic, Compass, etc.

When are we going to demand that our union actually address this issue? Falling on our sword, and drawing a line in the sand while our union "brothers" cross over that line, isn't a solution.

 

[JoeMerchant]

There is one other choice - a contract with effective scope language.

Perhaps one list should be the #1 item being negotiated. SkyWest can still keep two companies, with management close to where the rubber meets the road, as Jerry likes to say. We can have one seniority list. Problem solved.

I agree Fins, but that isn't what our CNC is asking for. I asked them about this during the conference call. Single list isn't on the table at all. The scope being asked for isn't going to stop the transfer of assets either. Per the CNC, the first 15% of our block hours can be transferred penalty free. After that, they can still transfer assets as long as they take the pilots with the aircraft. That is unacceptable.

 

[JoeMerchant]

This is coming from a supporter of a group who is trying to abolish scope as we know it!

Scope as we know it is a total failure for ALL parties. The mainline pilots have lost over 15000 jobs since 911, the regional pilots are subject to arbitrary limits to their careers, and companies are hamstrung by these arbitrary limits. Scope "as we know it" needs to be abolished.

 

[JoeMerchant]

A few months ago i suggested that your number one priority should be a single carrier petition and I was told I didn't know what I was talking about. Are you guys starting to get it now?

Many of us have understood the importance of this issue for many years - even before SKYW purchased us. However, even our MEC has become beholden to ALPA national and ALPA national has different priorities. I don't believe you will see any push for a single list until after you vote in ALPA. If it is pursued prior to that, there will be a new representational vote to determine who the bargaining agent is. ALPA is afraid that it could lose the ASA pilots as well as the SKYW pilots. Many of us at ASA would choose an inhouse union over ALPA, including many of us who have done ALPA work.

 

[JoeMerchant]

As have I. You can lead a horse to water...........................
AF

.............but a pencil must be lead................:beer:

 

[Russ]

"Mainline management has their eyes set on the 150 seat A/C next to go to the "regionals/commuters""

A few years ago I would have said you were paranoid. Now I'm the paranoid one as I believe it.

 

[737 Pylt]

Wrong again - it wasn't thrown out. Discovery and Depositions will be completed this fall.

Unfortunately the discovery phase has gone very well for the Plaintiffs. It was always my hope that ALPA would use the lawsuit as an excuse to reform its behavior. The representational lawsuit was, and is, a tool of last resort. Our hope continues to be that ALPA will change and in the process allow airlines like ASA the full benefit of participation in The Pilots' Union.

If ALPA National (on the order of the Delta MEC) had not stopped us, I can honestly say Mesa and Freedom would not be parking on C Concourse right now.

Keep blaming all your problems on the DL mec. If it makes you feel better, then so be it. Your group of DUI's and college dropouts makes me laugh! Your constant pointing of the finger gets old and tiresome! Maybe you should look in the mirror! Your true enemy is management. But if blaming the evil DL mainline pilots makes you feel better, have at it sport!
737

 

[ReportCanoa]

If it makes you feel better, then so be it. Your group of DUI's and college dropouts makes me laugh!

Drink what you want; drink what you're able. If you're drinkin' with me, you'll be under the table.

 

[jbDC9]

...the regional pilots are subject to arbitrary limits to their careers, and companies are hamstrung by these arbitrary limits.

You're kidding, right? The "regionals" are growing and expanding, hiring by the truckloads, getting new and bigger planes, displacing mainline flying and jobs... and you're pissed about "arbitrary" limits?

If the regional pilots and/or companies want to get away from these limits, then scrape the United Express or Delta Connection titles off the sides of the planes and go it alone as a stand-alone, independent airline, kinda like Indy Air had such success with. Otherwise, as long as you're sucking from the mainline titty, you'll have a few limitations to deal with. Get over it.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Your group of DUI's and college dropouts makes me laugh! Your constant pointing of the finger gets old and tiresome!
737

No where near as tiresome as your same old rhetoric with absolutely no basis in fact. Who has a DUI, or dropped out of college? Who? Name names.

Post your educational background and I'll post mine.

Put up - or please for the love of all that is good - shut up.

 

[~~~^~~~]

You're kidding, right? The "regionals" are growing and expanding, hiring by the truckloads, getting new and bigger planes, displacing mainline flying and jobs... and you're pissed about "arbitrary" limits?

.....as long as you're sucking from the mainline titty, you'll have a few limitations to deal with. Get over it.

You know, I would agree with you if these limits set on your MEC's political whims were negotiated fairly.

However, my MEC was denied the opportunity, by ALPA, to negotiate scope within the brand. We were denied this opportunity after our airline was acquired by and became a wholly owned unit which was operationally integrated within the brand.

So, our pilots are being replaced. For the most part we are being replaced by non-ALPA, lower paid, alter ego pilots. This is undermining our attempts to negotiate industry standard pay and working conditions. We are not growing. It seems situational awareness does not exist for traffic BELOW you, but in case you missed it - re read the title of the thread you posted on.

 

[Tim47SIP]

737Dood

Your group of DUI's and college dropouts makes me laugh!

You know, you are slamming a hell of a lot of people that really don't deserve your Prue conceived stereotype. Although I am not a RJDC supporter, I can agree with some of the issues they are dealing with. Just because we are working for the low life regionals, does not mean that we all have some disqualifying history. I have 2 MAS degrees and NO DUI's. But I am there! So back off on the unneeded cuts.

 

[goodpilotithink]

Keep blaming all your problems on the DL mec. If it makes you feel better, then so be it. Your group of DUI's and college dropouts makes me laugh! Your constant pointing of the finger gets old and tiresome! Maybe you should look in the mirror! Your true enemy is management. But if blaming the evil DL mainline pilots makes you feel better, have at it sport!
737

THIS IS A FINE EXAMPLE OF A REALLY, REALLY CLUELESS PERSON.

 

[737 Pylt]

Your group of DUI's and college dropouts makes me laugh!

You know, you are slamming a hell of a lot of people that really don't deserve your Prue conceived stereotype.

Tim, if you're not an rjdc supporter, then you should take no offense to the comment.

Although I am not a RJDC supporter, I can agree with some of the issues they are dealing with. Just because we are working for the low life regionals, does not mean that we all have some disqualifying history.

You're absolutely, I worked for a regional for more than 5 years, and some of my counterparts at the regionals used their regional paycheck, just to cover the taxes for their businesses that they owned. Again, the comment was directed to the rjdc supporters group. If you can't see the irony in my post directed at that ****************************** bag ~~~^~~~ then I guess my humor needs some work. This loser blames the DL pilot group/mec for everything from all ASA's problems to the sinking of the Titanic. The jerk has told more lies than truths and his lie about ASA losing their pass privileges just sent me over the edge. Their group is full of nothing but liars and propaganda sellers. The rjdc is the baghdad bob of the aviation industry!

I have 2 MAS degrees and NO DUI's. But I am there! So back off on the unneeded cuts.

Congrats, I too have a Masters degree, and use my DL pilot income to supplement my full time job!
regards,
737

No where near as tiresome as your same old rhetoric with absolutely no basis in fact. Who has a DUI, or dropped out of college? Who? Name names.

I wouldn't want you to sue me!

Post your educational background and I'll post mine.

MBA, Economics, PSU

Put up - or please for the love of all that is good - shut up.

Sure, name the time and place!
737

 

[jbDC9]

It seems situational awareness does not exist for traffic BELOW you, but in case you missed it - re read the title of the thread you posted on.

Yeah, nice try moron... I didn't miss the title of the thread, I was merely quoting from and responding to a post from Joe Merchant regarding scope in general and how it relates to both mainline and the regionals.

Here, in case you missed it, is his original post, #41;
"Scope as we know it is a total failure for ALL parties. The mainline pilots have lost over 15000 jobs since 911, the regional pilots are subject to arbitrary limits to their careers, and companies are hamstrung by these arbitrary limits. Scope "as we know it" needs to be abolished."

All better now?

 

[737 Pylt]

You know, I would agree with you if these limits set on your MEC's political whims were negotiated fairly.

You worry about ASA's negotiations, and we'll worry about DL's. Maybe you can get your rjdc fan club to help out!

However, my MEC was denied the opportunity, by ALPA, to negotiate scope within the brand

. We were denied this opportunity after our airline was acquired by and became a wholly owned unit which was operationally integrated within the brand.

Don't you ever get tired of lying?!

So, our pilots are being replaced. For the most part we are being replaced by non-ALPA, lower paid, alter ego pilots. This is undermining our attempts to negotiate industry standard pay and working conditions. We are not growing. It seems situational awareness does not exist for traffic BELOW you, but in case you missed it - re read the title of the thread you posted on.

Your pilots are being replaced?? How many has ASA hired since 2001? How many has DL? You are truly a classless POS!
737

 

[goahead]

You worry about ASA's negotiations, and we'll worry about DL's. Maybe you can get your rjdc fan club to help out!


Don't you ever get tired of lying?!


Your pilots are being replaced?? How many has ASA hired since 2001? How many has DL? You are truly a classless POS!
737

If were' all drunks and retards as ASA then that must make you all (ya'll) OLD PERVS (stinky too) that use high dollar equipment to find a way to spy on other people while they are in the shower while on an overnight......... You are a POS and you are the reason this industry is going TU.
I hate the RJDC by-the-way.

 

[Hobit]

I guess I fall into the group that the DAL pilot generalizes as less than sober and not so intelligent. The only problem is that I DO have a college degree and I DON'T have a DUI. I was looking at the DAL pilots profile, he just went about his aviation career differently than I. I chose to serve my country first and then pursue the airline career. Guess I should have just taken care of myself. Then I would be deserving of more respect because I would probably be at a major.

Tim, Should I mention that I once was a WOJG too? Is that worse than being a *gulp* regional pilot? Guess I am still just sitting on the bottom of the ocean with the whale poo.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Your group of DUI's and college dropouts makes me laugh!

One way to discredit yourself is to make comments like that.
People stay at the regionals for a variety of reasons. It would be very hard for me to leave for a major because my business would suffer and the pay loss I'd take for 3-5 years might force me to give up the beach condo. Plus I'd be on the bottom of someone's list and commuting. There's only one major I'd want to work for anyway, maybe two.

Kollug wuz weigh to hard aneeway so i dun had to drop out.

 

[737 Pylt]

Much like a neutered dog you girls just don't get it......
I dont have a problem with regional guys. Its the rjdc that's full of college drop outs and dui's! I know for a fact 2 guys that are MEMBERS OF THE RJDC that are dui's!
737

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

Much like a neutered dog you girls just don't get it......
I dont have a problem with regional guys. Its the rjdc that's full of college drop outs and dui's! I know for a fact 2 guys that are MEMBERS OF THE RJDC that are dui's!
737

How 'bout your 767 captain CONVICTED child-molester!

When he got his job back, the only agreement was no kids under 12 allowed in the First Class cabin!

 

[737 Pylt]

How 'bout your 767 captain CONVICTED child-molester!

I don't know anything about that!

When he got his job back, the only agreement was no kids under 12 allowed in the First Class cabin!

Then I guess you have nothing to worry about!
737