ASA to furlough?

[sweptback]

wmuflyguy,

I'm CMR too, I was explaining how it works for us but wondering how ASA's system was different.

I've been on DAL jumpseats when an ACARS message comes in telling them to be overhead a specific point on the arrival at a certain time. Pretty cool.

ASA's system takes the data from the perf init page (aircraft weight), the winds, and ISA dev. and sends it to a magic computer in Phoenix. Then, we get a poof of pixie dust and out comes our speed to fly. It updates about every 10 minutes or so, more if we hit the update button.

What you saw on DAL is Atilla, which sequences the aircraft over the arrival fixes in ATL. The idea is to self-sequence so ATC doesn't have to. It's kinda worthless right now because only Delta uses it, but ASA is supposed to sign on later. I'm sure all the DCI carriers with ACARS will be using it sooner or later.

 

[wmuflyguy]

wmuflyguy,

I'm CMR too, I was explaining how it works for us but wondering how ASA's system was different.

I've been on DAL jumpseats when an ACARS message comes in telling them to be overhead a specific point on the arrival at a certain time. Pretty cool.

Oh, my bad.

I read it as you were ASA.

What is this magical "ACARS" you speak of? Sounds nice!

 

[Richard Gozinya]

What you saw on DAL is Atilla, which sequences the aircraft over the arrival fixes in ATL. The idea is to self-sequence so ATC doesn't have to.

This is currently in use at SEA. If you are early, your almost NEVER late, you will get a 90 of course vector. They are real nazis about it.

Dick

 

[Oakum_Boy]

The only problem is out cost index software seems to work backwards. It gives high speed with a tail wind and low speed with a headwind. 243 knots cruise speed flying HPN-ATL with a 120 knot headwind? Something doesn't seem right.

I've noticed that as well. In a headwind, by pulling the speed way back, you may get get paid an extra 10 minutes of block, but the fuel savings faaaar outweigh that.

The opposite is true in a tailwind. Your fuel burn will be less regardless of speed, so it is going for a further crew/other cost reduction in that case by getting you there earlier

Seems, totally backwards and of course I'm just guessing. RIF it and see what the response is! They know the answer.

I'm pretty sure it's not looking at on-time arrivals either so I guess get there OT because that's what's important as far as we've been told.

 

[aeropharoh]

alright guys/gals I am all for saving $$$ and oil, but Delta gets that savings and ASA gets paid on performance. So what is better to be A-30 and save Delta 200# of fuel or be A-14 and hit our performance #'s? Keeping in mind we all get paid by the min. It is a tough call.

 

[aeropharoh]

since making the above post I have been informed that fuel savings does in fact pay at asa. ASA gets 50% of all fuel savings and bills Delta for it.

 

[USCtrojan]

since making the above post I have been informed that fuel savings does in fact pay at asa. ASA gets 50% of all fuel savings and bills Delta for it.

Where did you get this info Pharoh. Thanks, not that I don't believe you, I've never heard that before.

Trojan

 

[aeropharoh]

bh on thanksgiving day in the crew lounge by way of another

 

[USCtrojan]

bh on thanksgiving day in the crew lounge by way of another

Thanx!

Trojan

 

[JustaNumber]

alright guys/gals I am all for saving $$$ and oil, but Delta gets that savings and ASA gets paid on performance. So what is better to be A-30 and save Delta 200# of fuel or be A-14 and hit our performance #'s? Keeping in mind we all get paid by the min. It is a tough call.

It would be nice to get some more guidance on this.

 

[1080P]

ASA has always said that A14 goes before gas savings.

 

[yournextFO]

I've noticed that as well. In a headwind, by pulling the speed way back, you may get get paid an extra 10 minutes of block, but the fuel savings faaaar outweigh that.

The opposite is true in a tailwind. Your fuel burn will be less regardless of speed, so it is going for a further crew/other cost reduction in that case by getting you there earlier

Seems, totally backwards and of course I'm just guessing. RIF it and see what the response is! They know the answer.

I'm pretty sure it's not looking at on-time arrivals either so I guess get there OT because that's what's important as far as we've been told.

I did the math -- fuels savings on this leg was equivalent to about 100 lbs. The overblock cost associated with the captain and FO far exceeded the amount of fuel saved. Never mind missing our A-14 arrival, passenger misconnects, and downline delays.

 

[SLUF4]

well the gleim ATP book states that you should slow down in a tailwind in order to get the most benefit and speed up into a headwind to minimize the amount of time the headwind is acting on your aircraft. but i'll just do whatever the magic box tells me.

 

[crj567]

It's got a lot to do with "swept-wing aerodynamics." This is a fragile, and oft-misunderstood concept which is constantly given to us as an excuse for why normal physics do not work for our airplanes!

 

[spudskier]

It's got a lot to do with "swept-wing aerodynamics." This is a fragile, and oft-misunderstood concept which is constantly given to us as an excuse for why normal physics do not work for our airplanes!

*turns on the airmetronitator and activates the air antidragilator (draws down the overall power of the engines from the 199th stage bleed, but ya know, it's worth it)

 

[DrunkIrishman]

I have read some of you saying that you don't operate the way you are required to for whatever reason regarding CI. Have you brought these concerns to your CP? They aren't your airplanes, you just borrow them from time to time. Operate IAW your POH and let the company worry about this crap! That is one of the nice things about our jobs...we don't have to think about this stuff, we just have to do what the procedures say and then we go home. Of course, then there are the abnormal and emergency situations...

 

[Flyin2low]

I've heard that flying your approaches at 100kts saves fuel, but seems to kill a lot of people........

 

[spudskier]

I have read some of you saying that you don't operate the way you are required to for whatever reason regarding CI. Have you brought these concerns to your CP? They aren't your airplanes, you just borrow them from time to time. Operate IAW your POH and let the company worry about this crap! That is one of the nice things about our jobs...we don't have to think about this stuff, we just have to do what the procedures say and then we go home. Of course, then there are the abnormal and emergency situations...

Get off your high horse.

We operate these planes where SAFETY is our first and most important job. These concerns have been brought up with the CP. Some of these speeds are NOT safe and instructor pilots have agreed as much. These are NOT profile, rather an addition to the profile. If you read the language, it basically says fly the CI when you can. I don't think anyone completely disregards the CI. The company completely dropped the ball in terms of the roll-out and parameters surrounding the CI. Lack of information is also playing a huge roll as well as lack of understanding.

The moment you stop thinking... go home. You shouldn't be a pilot. Stay ahead of the airplane, be safe, and stay on your toes.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Get off your high horse.

We operate these planes where SAFETY is our first and most important job. These concerns have been brought up with the CP. Some of these speeds are NOT safe and instructor pilots have agreed as much. These are NOT profile, rather an addition to the profile. If you read the language, it basically says fly the CI when you can. I don't think anyone completely disregards the CI. The company completely dropped the ball in terms of the roll-out and parameters surrounding the CI. Lack of information is also playing a huge roll as well as lack of understanding.

The moment you stop thinking... go home. You shouldn't be a pilot. Stay ahead of the airplane, be safe, and stay on your toes.

None of the speeds are unsafe, and an instructor who says otherwise doesn't understand the cost indexing program. (The only instance where you might have some concern is when you don't do your job properly, and configure the perf init page with your correct weight, but then, that is YOUR problem, not cost indexing.)

It may not be prudent to fly what the CI tells you due to A14, winds, etc., but in no case is it unsafe. If that were the case, the FAA would have shut the program down immediately.

In all circumstances, you are well above the 1.3 Vs speed. The slow hold speeds are the L/D Max speeds, taking into consideration drift down, etc.

Stop spreading fear, and do a little research.

 

[asa rat]

In all circumstances, you are well above the 1.3 Vs speed. The slow hold speeds are the L/D Max speeds, taking into consideration drift down, etc.

CI has shown a holding speed of 191 at FL310 and yes, it corresponded with the drift down speed.

But drift down is likely wings level, whereas holding includes a standard rate turn and a corresponding increase in stall speed.

How much of a stall buffer do we have during the turn?