Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

ASA talks update?

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
enuffalready said:
I agree with this.. I think everyone loses if we lose premium...But especially nappers. As a lifetime napper I have not flown more than 35 hours in a month in 4 years...

I actually agree with not paying premo pay for nappers. Why the hell would you want to pay someone 85-90 hours for working 35 hours a month? Its no secret that a standup is the easiest gig around. In some cases its almost just like being on reduced rest. yea real productive. I Don't mind premo pay for everyone else but I dont think nappers should get it. Heck even if they just get guarantee they are still getting more than double what they actually work. Maybe if they give this up it gives you ammo for something more important than paying senior guys to do nothing. A new motto for your negotiations NO PREMIUM FOR NAPPERS JUST FOR THOSE THAT ACTUALLY WORK HOLLA!
 
Last edited:
buscap said:
As a non-commuter I have always been against spending negotiating ammo on a commuter clause. I even indicated this when polled.

The arguements on this thread have changed my mind. With the state of the company and industry I beleive a commuter clause is a strike issue. I will communicate this to the MEC immediately.

Thanks for the good points. It would be nice to have a similar "drive to work" policy: A thing that does deserve consideration is a policy which says you are not late for work if you are in the parking lot 15 minutes prior to duty-in. It sucks when you get screwed by bus/ramp problems.

Pilots arent the only ones that have had the rug pulled and had to move a lot. No matter what regional you are you are always subject to change at the mercy of the mama whos paying all your pills. We all know this and knew this when we took the job. A commuter policy is still a waste. Sure if you can get it thrown in without giving something else up maybe its ok. However you are going to always have to give something up in return. Why should anyone get off scott free for failing to report for duty multiple times? The 15 minute Bus policy is actually a good idea that is something truly out of your control. Missing a commute is not out of your control. I wonder how much ammo comair had to give up just to get that commuter clause. At the time CVG was the only base and hasnt gone anywhere. What a waste of ammo that was!
 
D'Angelo, why don't you go troll the Comair threads being that is who you work for. Shouldn't you be under or bent over Fred's desk taking what he gives you. By the way, did you get that new name badge yet? "Fred's B*tch" wasn't it.

Maybe you could get your fellow pilots at Comair to give up the commuter clause for some of the other stuff you and the other yes voters gave up.

Take your punk a$$ and your lame opinions somewhere else cause noone at ASA gives a sh*t about Comair pilots anymore. You took care of your contract and we will take care of ours. Didn't get Comair pilot support in our negotiations and we sure don't need Comair pilot opinions about our contract.
 
Say What?

D'Angelo said:
I actually agree with not paying premo pay for nappers. Why the hell would you want to pay someone 85-90 hours for working 35 hours a month? Its no secret that a standup is the easiest gig around. In some cases its almost just like being on reduced rest. yea real productive. I Don't mind premo pay for everyone else but I dont think nappers should get it. Heck even if they just get guarantee they are still getting more than double what they actually work. Maybe if they give this up it gives you ammo for something more important than paying senior guys to do nothing. A new motto for your negotiations NO PREMIUM FOR NAPPERS JUST FOR THOSE THAT ACTUALLY WORK HOLLA!

D'Angelo,
You've got to be out of your mind! To say flying a nap line isn't actually working is just plain wrong! Personally I'd much rather fly a 90 hour line than one of those scheduling abortions they call nap lines. Nappers have to deal with all the same crap the rest of us put up with, they just have to do it on little or no sleep. For some people that's no problem, for some it's down right painful (physically and mentally). Perhaps you're just referring to the old DFW naps, but do a few PWM naps and tell me how you feel. I'm guessing you probably never did any of the E120 4 leg naps either-those suckers were down right dangerous! We should have been receiving hazard pay for those bad boys.
-Blucher
 
D Angelo,
I hope that you are trying to ride my jumpseat coming home from seeing your parents or having been on vacation and maybe even because you moved and are forced to commute because of other extraordinary circumstances. Your right , we did know that we when signed up that bases open and close but the problem is that on this BS FO pay if you are single you cant hardly afford to move, especially if paying off student loans or other debt associated with an education. I want you to listen to me and listen to me good. our 1800 plus pilots will never collectively agree on what needs to be negotiated, but I am suggesting that you need to become a brother and stand side by side with 70% plus pilots at out carrier that commute. Get your head out of your A **!
 
Now that's chutzpah!

ASABound said:
D Angelo,
I hope that you are trying to ride my jumpseat coming home from seeing your parents or having been on vacation and maybe even because you moved and are forced to commute because of other extraordinary circumstances. Your right , we did know that we when signed up that bases open and close but the problem is that on this BS FO pay if you are single you cant hardly afford to move, especially if paying off student loans or other debt associated with an education. I want you to listen to me and listen to me good. our 1800 plus pilots will never collectively agree on what needs to be negotiated, but I am suggesting that you need to become a brother and stand side by side with 70% plus pilots at out carrier that commute. Get your head out of your A **!

ASABound,

I love your chutzpah, kid, but as it turns out D'Angelo works for the Communists in CVG, so his opinion is of no relevance here. I'd say that's good news for us. Just someone who likes to stir the pot.
The good news for him is that, assuming your profile is at all accurate, you're not a captain. Therefore, the aforementioned jumpseat is not "yours" to give nor refuse to give. This is a good thing, because refusing jumpseats is a huge can of worms that one ought not take lightly. If you commute you should already understand this. Jumpseat wars are wars that everybody loses, and there is always a lot of collateral damage.
I do agree however, this is a time to stand together against the company. Listen to the MEC and back the union. If we need to shut this place down, so be it. That won't be a failure on the part of labor, it will be an utter failure on the part of management. Although I suppose they might be able to make back what they've already paid in lawyer fees by selling off all their other assets.

-Blucher:smash:
 
blucher,
thanks for the response. your right I am not a cpatain at our carrier however i was one at my last carrier but that doesn;t matter. point being that i still find myself thinking like one sometimes. your also right in saying that we shouldnt hold the jumpseat from anyone, i commute and I couldnt agree more with what your saying. everybody stirs the pot here , even you and me !! Maybe not intentionally but it happens. I just hope that we don;t truly have nimrods that think that him at out company, you know. thanks for the reply !!
 
Its people like me that save the day. Hey diddle diddle to the people in the middle!! Extremists may win a battle or two but they never win the war
 
Dude said:
Those of you that would gladly walk out forever on ASA remember this: you may get what you ask for.

I am certainly not happy with our management but you provide a better plan to take an intellectually bankrupt business model and make money with it. We operate in an environment that does not reward mediocrity. Sadly, the employees in Atlanta (some crews included) are mediocre at best. This industry demands that people adapt to the changing marketplace and those who don't, fail. I'm afraid it isn't as simple as drinking kool-aid, it's common-sense. Those of you that would burn the joint down have had very little experience at anything else. Most people do not have the ability to renegotiate their working agreement every 4-5 years and most do not the input that we do. I am not saying that the current state of affairs is acceptable, because it clearly isn't; but to blindly say that it's worth shutting the company down is immature and childish.

We all make choices and have to live with them. My choice is to give our new parent a chance to make this a pleasurable place to work. I think that is a lot more plausible than achieving it through a strike. Our union and management have misused our trust and for that I would rather follow my company than my union if I have to make a choice. My company at least offers me a paycheck, the union just takes my money and has the Balls to lecture me about my lack of volunteerism. Take my 2% and hire someone to do the work we pay you for. Our local guys, for the most part, are okay but they get their cues from Herndon and for that reason I do not trust them to negotiate in my best interests. A union with as many resources should be able to come up with an analysis to show management where inefficiencies are and to pull the cost from there and not our paycheck. Instead, they beat their chests a little harder and insists that profits will sustain more pay. It ain't working that way.

Our union, our management, and ourselves are to blame for the mess we are in. ALPA has refused to adapt and change the way they negotiate, management has failed to realize that a happy workforce is a productive one and that their business model sucks, and we continue to foam at the mouth at the prospect of new equipment, new flying or taking someone elses. All I ask is that before you make a cavalier comment like "burn it down", ask yourself if you have done anything to make this place better. I doubt you have. If your so enlightened, please offer a strategy or a plan to make this $5.00 product produce more than $2.50. Good luck.

I sort of see what you are trying to say, but you are not being completely logical. You say the current state of affairs is unacceptable, yet you accept waiting out the current state of affairs hoping that someone else will make your life better. You ask if others have done anything to make this place better, but you refuse to do so yourself.

You say that ALPA should submit a better business plan for running the airline to management. Unfortunately, that’s not how this business works. You have little understanding of what a union is or what you expect it to do. A union is simply what it sounds like, a group of similar people getting together, with the express purpose of negotiating as a single entity instead of as a bunch of disparate individuals.

The purpose of a pilot union is not to run an airline--that’s management’s job! The union just makes sure we are all speaking with the same voice when we tell management what we will and will not accept. “Most people” outside of aviation that you speak of, more than likely have much more individualistic jobs, and so it makes sense to negotiate one-on-one with their employers. If they threaten to leave, their employer has to weigh how difficult it will be to replace their unique capabilities, and so both sides have negotiating capital.

In the airline industry, for safety reasons, pilots are trained by design to be as identical to thousands of other pilots as is humanly possible. The unfortunate result is, if one pilot tells management he’s leaving, he has absolutely no negotiating strength. Management just says “good riddance” as they hire his cheaper replacement. A union is the ONLY way pilots have a say in how things will be run.

I believe that our current MEC leaders are honest individuals. They are negotiating based on the results of all the polls we have been taking. Period. They know what we want, and are asking for it. No super-secret Herndon agenda to put you on the street so General Lee can take your job.

Do your job, do it well, but be ready to tell management through your union how you wish to be treated. Management, even JA, would be very happy to pay you as little as possible and make you work as long and hard as possible. YOU are the only one who draws the line. Decide where that line is, and then stick to it!
 
D'Angelo said:
Its people like me that save the day. Hey diddle diddle to the people in the middle!! Extremists may win a battle or two but they never win the war

...and people who stand for nothing will fall for anything. You're pathetic.
 
JustaNumber said:
...and people who stand for nothing will fall for anything. You're pathetic.

I may fall for nothing but at the end of the day im still here with a job that has fairly decent pay and days off for whats required. While you goto the unemployment office begging for food stamps I sit here with a cigar in my mouth, kicking my feet up laughing as you fall on your own sword. Remember combining incomes helps you make a lot more money. Find a lady that also works and you will be ok. You will no longer need to be an extremist who falls on his sword. You dont have to support a family on just 1 salary. HOLLA
 
Yo D' You better check the tension on your cornrows. You really come off as a stupid arse! Based on the sheer cost of training (or service to Uncle Sugar) this career should support a family by itself. The fact that you don't grasp this concerns me.
Of course, anyone who looks up to a rapper is probably working with an 8th grade level of comprehension (and a great comprehension of government handouts) so I guess I should feel sorry for you.
 
D'Angelo said:
I may fall for nothing but at the end of the day im still here with a job that has fairly decent pay and days off for whats required. While you goto the unemployment office begging for food stamps I sit here with a cigar in my mouth, kicking my feet up laughing as you fall on your own sword. Remember combining incomes helps you make a lot more money. Find a lady that also works and you will be ok. You will no longer need to be an extremist who falls on his sword. You dont have to support a family on just 1 salary. HOLLA

Actually, I have half a year's pay in cash saved up, and can easily get another job, so I won't be begging for food stamps anytime soon. It's not falling on your sword if you simply tell your employer what the minimum is you are willing to provide your services for. You, on the other hand, smoke cigars with a smile on your face while you let your company put a sword in you and twist it a little bit.

Remember, working a second job at Burger King also helps you make a lot more money. BUT WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT YOU ARE WORTH? I repeat my assertion, "You stand for nothing."
 
Why feel sorry for me? Im sitting here on my desk with the lady laughing as you talk about falling on a sword for something as silly as a commuter policy. We both make good money and I have never taken a gov't handout. I worked hard and here I am. No debt by the way I had enough sense to pay as I went. It helps having parents who have some $$ also. Stereotypes don't always lead you down the right path my friend. So I like a brotha who sings good, so what?
 
JustaNumber said:
Actually, I have half a year's pay in cash saved up, and can easily get another job, so I won't be begging for food stamps anytime soon. It's not falling on your sword if you simply tell your employer what the minimum is you are willing to provide your services for. You, on the other hand, smoke cigars with a smile on your face while you let your company put a sword in you and twist it a little bit.

Remember, working a second job at Burger King also helps you make a lot more money. BUT WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT YOU ARE WORTH? I repeat my assertion, "You stand for nothing."

Hey I dont have a second job and the lady does quite well working at the bank. Between mine and her income we do plenty well. Even with the paycuts im still up there. A little open time here and there or an extra trip here and there and life is great. So while you sit there and blow through your savings ill still be laughing with my cigar in one hand and a dry martini in the other. I stand for plenty. I stand as the person in the middle. Extremism gets you either a lot of wasted savings money or fun at the unemployment office. have fun
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom