ASA/SKYW and PCL/Colgan pilots

[JoeMerchant]

Folks it's time for ALPA to put up or shut up. ASA and PCL are currently in the end game of section 6 contract negotiations. Both ASA and PCL are also faced with alter-ego non-union carriers within their parent holding companies. ASA has SKYW and PCL has Colgan. ALPA is attempting to organize both Skywest and Colgan. ALPA is facing a tough time convincing both Skywest and Colgan that ALPA is best for them.

In light of this, it is time to put ALPA to the test. If ALPA has anything to offer the pilots of ASA/Skywest and PCL/Colgan, then now is the time to show that it can stop the whipsaw and that we won't put up with whipsaw anymore. If you are an ASA, SKYW, PCL, or Colgan pilot, and you agree that this must be a priority, then please PM me. We are starting a petition to present to ALPA to deal with this problem. Those of us at ASA and PCL can present it to our leadership. Those of you at Colgan and Skywest, can present it to your organizing committee.

It's time to for ALPA to show some leadership in this serious matter, or it is time to send ALPA packing. The choice is ours...

PM me or send email to [email protected]

 

[Prop2Jet]

Umm who do you work for? Let Colgan handle thier own business you will not be let down!

 

[Speedtape]

Folks it's time for ALPA to put up or shut up. ASA and PCL are currently in the end game of section 6 contract negotiations. Both ASA and PCL are also faced with alter-ego non-union carriers within their parent holding companies. ASA has SKYW and PCL has Colgan. ALPA is attempting to organize both Skywest and Colgan. ALPA is facing a tough time convincing both Skywest and Colgan that ALPA is best for them.

In light of this, it is time to put ALPA to the test. If ALPA has anything to offer the pilots of ASA/Skywest and PCL/Colgan, then now is the time to show that it can stop the whipsaw and that we won't put up with whipsaw anymore. If you are an ASA, SKYW, PCL, or Colgan pilot, and you agree that this must be a priority, then please PM me. We are starting a petition to present to ALPA to deal with this problem. Those of us at ASA and PCL can present it to our leadership. Those of you at Colgan and Skywest, can present it to your organizing committee.

It's time to for ALPA to show some leadership in this serious matter, or it is time to send ALPA packing. The choice is ours...

PM me or send email to [email protected]

Are you going to charge for your services? Are you going to lead or abandon your job? I wasted a vote on you once. Why should anyone trust that you could lead anything after you abandoned a position for which you ran and were elected?

What's that saying? "Screw me once, shame on you; screw me twice, shame on me!" You want get a second chance! You are not a leader!

 

[DoinTime]

We are starting a petition to present to ALPA to deal with this problem.

Who is we? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Are you going to charge for your services? Are you going to lead or abandon your job? I wasted a vote on you once. Why should anyone trust that you could lead anything after you abandoned a position for which you ran and were elected?

What's that saying? "Screw me once, shame on you; screw me twice, shame on me!" You want get a second chance! You are not a leader!

Speedtape,
ALPA abandon ALL of us. I haven't changed my message or beliefs since the ASA and CMR MECs filed the PID and onealpa - you do remember that don't you? I supported the ASA and CMR MECs in that pursuit. I susported the ASA and CMR MECs during the 2002 BOD resolutions demanding ALPA do something about the alter-ego problem they were ignoring. I then supported the RJDC as did Newie, Bob, and JC. I was then ignored because of that support for RJDC as our MEC "got ALPA religion". My position was ignored and powerless.... much like ALPA has become.

Once again Speedtape, what is ALPA's solution? Working within the system doesn't work, and hasn't worked for some time. Continue to support the status quo if you wish, that is your choice. Many don't believe it is working, and are looking for a new direction. Hopefully one side or the other can change the course we are headed on...

 

[701EV]

Joe,

I'm in

701EV

 

[JoeMerchant]

Who is we? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

There is growing support for a single list at ASA/SKYW. Many are talking about trying to decertify ALPA. I would like to try one last push with ALPA to resolve this problem before resorting to that. I was hoping that there are some at SKYW, PCL, and Colgan that want to join and pressure ALPA. If not, carry on....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe,

I'm in

701EV

Thanks 701EV, PM me, or email me. Talk it up and pass the word.....

 

[~~~^~~~]

It's time to for ALPA to show some leadership in this serious matter, or it is time to send ALPA packing. The choice is ours...

PM me or send email to [email protected]

That resonates, count me in.

 

[JoeMerchant]

That resonates, count me in.

Thanks Fins.

I will be printing extra copies of the petition and would appreciate if some of you would carry them with you.

If anyone has connections at Skywest, PCL, or Colgan, please contact them and see if they can start the ball rolling on their properties....

 

[bogey383]

I am an ALPA member, so i don't want it to seem like I am bashing alpa.. But how can skywest be an alter ego of ASA if they are the parent company, that is just an ignorant statement. Like saying your mother is your sister. Well i guess in some parts of the world GA, that can be true.. so.. flame on..

 

[DrewBlows]

In light of this, it is time to put ALPA to the test. If ALPA has anything to offer the pilots of ASA/Skywest and PCL/Colgan, then now is the time to show that it can stop the whipsaw and that we won't put up with whipsaw anymore.

Good idea, what's your plan?

How about posting the text of your petition?

 

[~~~^~~~]

I am an ALPA member, so i don't want it to seem like I am bashing alpa.. But how can skywest be an alter ego of ASA if they are the parent company, ..

Something to do with ASA's firm orders going down the ramp with "SW" on the tail....stripping a union carrier of jobs and placing the jobs at the non union unit as a form of self help....all while ALPA negotiates contracts that "sell" our flying for negotiating credits for preferred ALPA members.

Again, if anyone finds ALPA's balls, please send them back to Herndon, VA.

 

[DoinTime]

There is growing support for a single list at ASA/SKYW. Many are talking about trying to decertify ALPA.

You, fins, and that mouse in your pocket hardly qualify as "growing support."

 

[jstyle13]

I am an ALPA member, so i don't want it to seem like I am bashing alpa.. But how can skywest be an alter ego of ASA if they are the parent company, that is just an ignorant statement. Like saying your mother is your sister. Well i guess in some parts of the world GA, that can be true.. so.. flame on..

If your biological father had a baby(you) with his biological daughter, wouldn't that make her your mother and technically your sister as well....? Anyone from Kentucky on here that could clarify that for us?

:0

 

[Scott Holl]

I will help. ALPA only makes it harder for me to do my job. The sooner we get them off ASA property the sooner we can settle this contract and get to business. I have some ideas, but they are not for here.

Just swing by my office.

 

[fastback]

I will help. ALPA only makes it harder for me to do my job. The sooner we get them off ASA property the sooner we can settle this contract and get to business. I have some ideas, but they are not for here.

Just swing by my office.

Won't the real slim shady please stand up?

 

[scott hall]

I will help. ALPA only makes it harder for me to do my job. The sooner we get them off ASA property the sooner we can settle this contract and get to business. I have some ideas, but they are not for here.

Just swing by my office.

Is there an echo in here? Or maybe an imposter?!

 

[fastback]

There he is.

 

[Airboss]

I think its a good idea, but I believe because JoeMerchant thought of it and is in charge of it you won't get much support. Maybe Brian Wilson will write a letter to the pilots in support of it.

 

[CFIT]

Joe, While I admire your intentions to develop one list of the pilots under SkyWest Inc. and the potential negotiating power it would have I doubt between the two pilot groups there is sufficient negotiating capital to pull it off.

And, all SkyWest Inc has to do to get around it is spin up another certificate, and thus another pilot group. Problem solved, for them at least.

Certificates are not the giant hurdle they used to be, and yes, all of this has been researched by the legals before the aquisition of ASA was finalized.

 

[~~~^~~~]

All SkyWest Inc has to do to get around it is spin up another certificate, and thus another pilot group. Problem solved, for them at least.

That is why you have to bind the holding company to the agreement, like Comair just did.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I would love to see what would happen at ASA if they got rid of ALPA. I would venture to guess that ASA's list would be put on the bottom of SKW's. It would be a love it or leave it. You pay would go down and so would SKW's. There would be no reason for SKW management to keep it up. Both of its carriers just voted ALPA down and out. When y'all got pi$$ed off enough they would give you just enough money to stop the union drive. It is a cycle and pilots are a commodity. If you think that the relationship would be better with out ALPA, try it. I would venture to guess that it would be one of the worst moves the ASA pilots could make.
As bad as ALPA has appeared to be for ASA, and as many dumb things that they have done, the fact that we have a CBA makes it bound by federal law. Yes, the company violates it everyday, but if you did not have one, I would guess that you would be abused until you were so bloody you could not stand up.

Be careful what you wish for...

 

[JoeMerchant]

I would love to see what would happen at ASA if they got rid of ALPA. I would venture to guess that ASA's list would be put on the bottom of SKW's. It would be a love it or leave it. You pay would go down and so would SKW's. There would be no reason for SKW management to keep it up. Both of its carriers just voted ALPA down and out. When y'all got pi$$ed off enough they would give you just enough money to stop the union drive. It is a cycle and pilots are a commodity. If you think that the relationship would be better with out ALPA, try it. I would venture to guess that it would be one of the worst moves the ASA pilots could make.
As bad as ALPA has appeared to be for ASA, and as many dumb things that they have done, the fact that we have a CBA makes it bound by federal law. Yes, the company violates it everyday, but if you did not have one, I would guess that you would be abused until you were so bloody you could not stand up.

Be careful what you wish for...

ACL65Pilot,

Decertification would only be pursued IF ALPA fails to deliver on a single list. It has been done in the past at EGL, MAG, and CHQ/Republic. Are you saying ALPA can't accomplish a single list with Skywest Inc. that binds the entire holding company? It's been done before, why can't it be done here?

If ALPA can't deliver, then maybe it is time to find someone who can....

 

[BIGGOAT]

A single list and binding the company to that list of pilots is a maybe a good idea. What will it cost us?
I pay my ALPA dues, though I do not have a chioce, and am generally glad to have them on property b/c of legal protection etc. When it comes to negotiating, however, they are losing my support. This is my second carrier, AE being the first, and neither union impressed me. Do I trust mgt? NO! So what a guy like me to do?

Goat

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If ALPA can't deliver, then maybe it is time to find someone who can....

Joe-

Did I miss it? I am still waiting for you to tell me how ALPA failed the ACA pilots....

ALPA can't deliver? find someone who can? Joe- if you are going to create a power vacuum you'd had better someone to replace ALPA when you show them the door.... If you don't have ALL of this planned then you are being very irresponsible..............

 

[DrunkIrishman]

We are in an advantageous time to do this. There is a pilot shortage at the regional level. Unless there is consolidation and parking of rj's, we actually have some options collectively. SKYW and ASA cannot fill ground schools. ASA is hiring people that do not yet have their commercial multi-engine rating!

If there was a time to fix the problem at the regional level, then it is now. But I won't sign your petition because of your past performance (or lack thereof). Call me when you get someone that actually does their job.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I am an ALPA member, so i don't want it to seem like I am bashing alpa.. But how can skywest be an alter ego of ASA if they are the parent company, that is just an ignorant statement. Like saying your mother is your sister. Well i guess in some parts of the world GA, that can be true.. so.. flame on..

Do you know the difference between Skywest Inc and Skywest Airlines?

Skywest Airlines is not the parent company of ASA. Both Skywest Airlines and ASA are subsidiaries of Skywest Inc. Since Skywest Airlines is non union, and ASA's assets and flying are being transferred to Skywest, and the Skywest pilots are being used to whipsaw the ASA pilots, Skywest Airlines is an alter ego of ASA. This actually is a textbook case for single carrier status.

I agree with Joe Mechant that ALPA is afraid to pursue it for fear of decertification.

Unfortunately, no petition he starts will gain enough traction to get a majority following because he is such a pariah. He will be an albatross around the neck of anything he puts his name on. If he really wants this to happen, he should put someone who has the respect of our pilot group's name on it and then he should take a behind the scenes role. He neede to team up with someone who has a reputation for not hating ALPA out of spite, because most of our pilots will just see this effort as "JB trying to screw ALPA again".

Besides, a petition means nothing to ALPA. They can ignore it. The only way to do what he wants is to pass a resolution at an LEC meeting.

 

[Tarzan]

Do you know the difference between Skywest Inc and Skywest Airlines?

Skywest Airlines is not the parent company of ASA. Both Skywest Airlines and ASA are subsidiaries of Skywest Inc. Since Skywest Airlines is non union, and ASA's assets and flying are being transferred to Skywest, and the Skywest pilots are being used to whipsaw the ASA pilots, Skywest Airlines is an alter ego of ASA. This actually is a textbook case for single carrier status.

I agree with Joe Mechant that ALPA is afraid to pursue it for fear of decertification.

Unfortunately, no petition he starts will gain enough traction to get a majority following because he is such a pariah. He will be an albatross around the neck of anything he puts his name on. If he really wants this to happen, he should put someone who has the respect of our pilot group's name on it and then he should take a behind the scenes role. He neede to team up with someone who has a reputation for not hating ALPA out of spite, because most of our pilots will just see this effort as "JB trying to screw ALPA again".

Besides, a petition means nothing to ALPA. They can ignore it. The only way to do what he wants is to pass a resolution at an LEC meeting.

Pennekamp,
If you believe this will be a good road to go down, there will traction for this motion elsewhere as well. It is going to take someone who has some experience with ALPA to stick their neck out. I'd gladly do it but I doubt my word would carry much weight. But I have no with helping carry some of the water. ALPA has to start doing business like it is today and not 1950.

In my brief experience in the airlines, when a company says they are going to do something contract related, they do. The union tends to disbelieve this and encourages the members to do the same. The outcome at TSA wasn't a happy one. ASA lost the 900's to Skywest just as promised and lost some 700's (We got 16 more planes *sic*) as well until SW Inc discovered they didn't have the pilots to fly them all. I'm not sure what the answer is if SW pilots disavow a single list but the current playbook needs to be tossed and a new one written.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Pennekamp,
If you believe this will be a good road to go down, there will traction for this motion elsewhere as well. It is going to take someone who has some experience with ALPA to stick their neck out...

I'm not sure what the answer is if SW pilots disavow a single list but the current playbook needs to be tossed and a new one written.

I am starting to believe it, and I agree that it needs to come from someone with "ALPA credibility".

And yes, ALPAs playbook dates back to pre-deregulation and needs to be updated.