ASA: SH says FO's are going to Delta

[CFI2766]

Turning away for a moment from the about to ensue argument about the genuine injustice of being a white male at an airline, let's revisit the intent of the original post: F/Os are getting hired at Delta with ZERO part 121 PIC.

I know personally an individual that is a white, male, current but soon to be former ASA F/O, who has a class with Delta. He had no connections on the inside and did not have his resume walked in by daddy. He's around 30ish and had a some part 135 Caravan time in addition to his CFI and ASA time.

Not that it matters, but he's actually a good guy.

 

[blzr]

What good is it to get on with zero pic? What if Delta furloughs all the way back to WWII like airways did and the 20 year guys are holding reserve on a DC3 out of JFK...(tongue in cheek)... What good will it do for this person to go out into the job market? Would another major take this person over someone that has proven they can pass a type ride and have PIC time? Maybe it isn't so good to be at Delta with little to no PIC time..

 

[CFI2766]

True enough, 0 PIC might not be an asset if Delta goes away. However, I'd bet that not a one of us would, at the current time, hesitate to make the jump if it were offered. Let's see, build seniority at Delta and shortly catch up with and exceed ASA in pay, or, stick with ASA playing the 'what if' game. Tough choice.

Now, move the clock forward 5 years to when the hiring boom is a distant memory and CNBC and flightinfo v. 2.0 is talking about the coming bankruptcies of major airlines, and this will change.

 

[sweptback]

What good is it to get on with zero pic? What if Delta furloughs all the way back to WWII like airways did and the 20 year guys are holding reserve on a DC3 out of JFK...(tongue in cheek)... What good will it do for this person to go out into the job market? Would another major take this person over someone that has proven they can pass a type ride and have PIC time? Maybe it isn't so good to be at Delta with little to no PIC time..

First year Delta pay is better than any ASA FO pay (and we have some of the highest FO pay in the industry).

Even if the guy gets furloughed, he'll just go back to being a regional FO... only this time he'll have a Delta number. It sounds like a pretty easy decision to me.

 

[wms]

First year Delta pay is better than any ASA FO pay (and we have some of the highest FO pay in the industry).

Even if the guy gets furloughed, he'll just go back to being a regional FO... only this time he'll have a Delta number. It sounds like a pretty easy decision to me.

Why go back to a regional? Get a good job at Home Depot where you can be with the family every day until you go back. I'm hoping to get hired at a major right before the next round of furloughs.

 

[pdub20s]

That is what happens whether you like it or not. It is called affirmative action. This degrading measure pushed on us, prejudices employers on race and sex. You want to see bigotry, look there. In this day and age, Congress says you can't do as well as others because you are not a white male.

Calling someone a bigit instead of bigot? If you are going to insult someone, do it right.

Welcome to the real world.

Its just sounds real stupid for someone to automatically assume all the new hires were "minorities". Sounds like he has a chip on his shoulder. Maybe a black man, or a Mexican woman, or and Asian intern got the Job over him somewhere else??? It is actually the opposite when a "minority" goes in for an interview at any job. He/She already has one strike against him/her because they are a minority. That is the real world!!! I'm not pulling any race cards, but when a "minority" sits in front of an interviewer, he/she has a preconceived notion of what his/her background is and other retarded stereotypes. I personally believe that hiring should be based on simply the qualifications of the applicant. not cuz, "we don't have enough females or blacks etc etc in the company". but for you to say the only reasons why these folks got hired cuz they are a "minority" is asinine. Because you take everything they worked hard for, away from them.

 

[rogerwilcoout]

What kind of bigit says ******************** like that?

Yeah, don't you know hiring someone strictly on their color is morally right? Crazy anglo !

 

[FishandFly]

Its just sounds real stupid for someone to automatically assume all the new hires were "minorities". Sounds like he has a chip on his shoulder. Maybe a black man, or a Mexican woman, or and Asian intern got the Job over him somewhere else??? It is actually the opposite when a "minority" goes in for an interview at any job. He/She already has one strike against him/her because they are a minority. That is the real world!!! I'm not pulling any race cards, but when a "minority" sits in front of an interviewer, he/she has a preconceived notion of what his/her background is and other retarded stereotypes. I personally believe that hiring should be based on simply the qualifications of the applicant. not cuz, "we don't have enough females or blacks etc etc in the company". but for you to say the only reasons why these folks got hired cuz they are a "minority" is asinine. Because you take everything they worked hard for, away from them.

If you agree that all applicants should be equal and that companies should not increase someone's chances because they are female or a minority then you, me, and the supreme court are all on the same page.

So I ask you this. Aren't you irritated that a disproportionately high percentage of females and interns got the job over other, more qualified candidates? That hiring practice directly contradicts what you just said.

By the way, this thread wasn't intended to be a catalyst. My original question was referring to what is common knowledge at my airline.

On a sidenote, do you think this is right?

http://www.obap.org/

 

[~~~^~~~]

Never mind.

 

[PCL_128]

It is actually the opposite when a "minority" goes in for an interview at any job. He/She already has one strike against him/her because they are a minority. That is the real world!!!

No, that was the "real world" in 1965. Now it's the exact opposite. Company HR departments set quotas for different categories of minorities and hire to reach those quotas whether they find enough qualified candidates that fit those criteria or not. You probably weren't around before 9/11, but back then UAL was famous for this. That's why airline HR departments love OBAP and WIA conferences. It lets them scoop up enough minorities to fill their quotas all from a couple of job fairs.

 

[FORESTGUMP]

Its just sounds real stupid for someone to automatically assume all the new hires were "minorities". Sounds like he has a chip on his shoulder. Maybe a black man, or a Mexican woman, or and Asian intern got the Job over him somewhere else??? It is actually the opposite when a "minority" goes in for an interview at any job. He/She already has one strike against him/her because they are a minority. That is the real world!!! I'm not pulling any race cards, but when a "minority" sits in front of an interviewer, he/she has a preconceived notion of what his/her background is and other retarded stereotypes. I personally believe that hiring should be based on simply the qualifications of the applicant. not cuz, "we don't have enough females or blacks etc etc in the company". but for you to say the only reasons why these folks got hired cuz they are a "minority" is asinine. Because you take everything they worked hard for, away from them.

Look you moron. A couple years ago, Delta and the AJC made a HUGE spectacle of the SPECIAL MINORITY PROGRAM Delta set up through some college (UND I think or maybe central michigan). ALL the "students" were either black or female (if I remember correctly, they were all black including the females). They were QUARANTEED a job with Delta Connection and QUARANTEED an interview with Delta after a specified amount of time.

It was played up as "helping the disadvantaged minorities". The silly thing about it was once you read their "bio's" NONE of them were "disadvantaged". They were investament bankers, engineers, sim instructors, accountants, etc.

Face it: they got free tuition, flying and QUARANTEED jobs/interviews BECAUSE THEY WERE BLACK! Not because they were qualified in ANY way.

Theres no chip. Its just a statement of FACT.
http://www.csrwire.com/PressRelease.php?id=547

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Delta has hired some of ASA best and absolute worst.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Why is it that every time the majors start hiring the minority issue comes with it. The simple fact is that if you pick any 10 airliner flt decks you may find one minority. The actual percentage of minority flight deck officers is in the single digits. The DL program Forest speaks of took 40 participants. That is 40 minorities out of over 6,000 pilots, you do the math.

The simple fact is that the golden jobs we all seek at the majors is more likely to go to a SWM than any other group.

 

[FishandFly]

I hate to contradict what you're saying, but I bet you a 20 that a minority or woman is more likely to be offered jobs than a white male.

The fact that there are fewer minorities or woman in a cockpit is irrelevant unless you take into account the number of those same groups who are actually in aviation.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

You actually made my point. Affirmative action or not, the percentage of minorities in aviation is very small. The comptetition is comprised of mostly SWM than from any other group. So why all the drama?

We all use any leverage we can to get in the door. Be it your daddy knows a CP or your buddy is a check airman. Everybody has to go through and pass the same training program.

 

[PCL_128]

Why is it that every time the majors start hiring the minority issue comes with it. The simple fact is that if you pick any 10 airliner flt decks you may find one minority. The actual percentage of minority flight deck officers is in the single digits. The DL program Forest speaks of took 40 participants. That is 40 minorities out of over 6,000 pilots, you do the math.

The raw numbers don't mean anything. What matters is looking at the percentages and the qualifications. When only 5% of the applicants are minorities, but 10% of the people that actually get hired are minorities, then something ain't right. Especially when you look at their quals and realize that the women are getting hired with half the PIC time or less compared to their white male counterparts.

Look, all of us want everyone to get a fair shake. What we don't want is for someone to get special treatment simply because they have a certain racial background or a set of tits.

 

[FORESTGUMP]

Why is it that every time the majors start hiring the minority issue comes with it. The simple fact is that if you pick any 10 airliner flt decks you may find one minority. The actual percentage of minority flight deck officers is in the single digits. The DL program Forest speaks of took 40 participants. That is 40 minorities out of over 6,000 pilots, you do the math.

The simple fact is that the golden jobs we all seek at the majors is more likely to go to a SWM than any other group.

you miss the point my friend. Its not about the % on the deck. Its about the "golden ticket" you and I don't have a chance to use. Believe me, if I was a woman OR a minority (especially a MINORITY WOMAN) I would invoke my right to move to the head of the line. Qualified or not!

I came from solidly LOWER middle class. My folks had mediocre jobs (but they were ALWAYS employed), lived in mediocre homes (even a trailer in a trailer park after our house burned when we were on "vacation" when I was about 4 and oh by the way my new puppy died the same day we got back to find the house gone), they never went to college (nor had anyone else in our family).

So, theres your tragedy, misfortune and UNDER privilege. I still made it happen by WORKING and paying my way to my ratings then doing whatever it took to get the time and EXPERIENCE to get a "decent" job.

ANY minority could do the same if they REALLY wanted.

 

[FishandFly]

You actually made my point. Affirmative action or not, the percentage of minorities in aviation is very small. The comptetition is comprised of mostly SWM than from any other group. So why all the drama?

We all use any leverage we can to get in the door. Be it your daddy knows a CP or your buddy is a check airman. Everybody has to go through and pass the same training program.

If I made your point, you are dismissing any understanding of the concept of fairness and equality.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Sorry to prolong the hijack, but....

As long as pop African-American culture derides those who seek knowledge and education in favor of the RETARDED "gangsta" image, there will be a disproportionate amount of Minorities in Prison and not in the cockpit

simple as that

 

[atlcrjdriver]

If I made your point, you are dismissing any understanding of the concept of fairness and equality.

I also come from a middle class family and had to bust my hump for every hour to earn every rating just as most people on this board. I am not condoning preferential hiring to any group or nationality. All I am saying is to but it in perspective. You are FAR more likely to see some brat with a silver spoon in his mouth that daddy paid for every flight hour and then got him his job with far less experience then you will a minority in the flight deck.

Neither scenerio is right but it happens.