ASA Quality of Life

[Boxer]

Thanks for the update, I wasn't aware of that. Good, I suppose, for the older new hires.

 

[mcbecker]

Medeco,

I hope you are correct in saying they bid the aircraft by senority/age. I'm in the Nov 4th class so I'll let you all know
if this is true.

 

[sleepy]

I am glad to hear that they are assiging aircraft based on your seniority within the new hire class. This is the way it should have been done all along. When I came through two years ago, they put you where they wanted you, and paid no attention to seniority.

I would think that most of the junior pilots will end up on the 70 seat RJ, that is where the longest potential reserve time and worst schedules will be found.

 

[Boxer]

Congrats to you new hires coming in on the 4th. Just FYI, the December prelims showed these openings for the new hire class on that date:

(5) ATL ATR-72
(5) ATL CRJ-200
(0) ATL CRJ-700
(0) ATL E-120

(10) DFW CRJ-200
(5) DFW E-120

Regarding bidding, be aware that most of the growth at ASA over the last two years has been at DFW. Those who don't want to sit on reserve for a year or more may want to consider this if they let you bid by age now during new hire class. Long standing rumors as well as company literature has stated the intended, continued growth of the DFW base. ie: holding a line much quicker. In Dallas, I sat on reserve only one month and most others only a few more. Not trying to diss' ATL at all, I may bid out there eventually, but only on the 70 and when I can hold a line. New hires that I went to class with summer of 2001 who got ATL CRJ and E-120 are only JUST NOW holding low seniority relief lines. ATR guys had it a little better. Anyway, just something to think about. There's only one way to say it: reserve $ucks big-time. Either way, congrats again and welcome!

 

[katanabob]

I am ecstatic to have a job and all, but isn't assigning aircraft and domicile essentially on the basis of age a blatant form of discrimination? I know this accusation was made a LONG time ago at FedEx, which prompted them to assign seniority within a class based on a 'random' criteria--the last four digits of your SSN.
I am not trying to complain, just asking a simple question about why they chose to do it that way. (I think if I was older, I wouldn't be asking.) I am excited to fly whatever they'll let me, but the prospect of possibly being assigned something through whatever voodoo they used to used sounded much better than getting whatever's left. (I know, welcome to the seniority system.)

 

[Exarmykingair]

Just an answer to the Bid question. Oct 21st was the first class to get to bid for their aircraft and domicile. The senior folks got the CRJ200 in ATL and the very junior folks got the 120 in DAL. But as far as it being unfair going by age didn't even come up. To be honest the classes these days are quite different than those of the past. Average age was around 32 and the average flight time was 3900 total. There is a great mix and a lot of guys coming in with prior experience even from the Majors.
It's a great place to be no matter what aircraft you get.


GOOD LUCK!

 

[Medeco]

Aircraft assignment

Katanabob,

I hear what your saying, I think in the contract the seniority goes by DOH then by age and since the class has the same DOH that is the next logical step. I could be wrong, someone correct me if I am.

Medeco

 

[btflyer2]

I had heard they used age for seniority within the new hire classes, which is how they do it at my current airline. And being more mature, it would be a small benefit to me. I guess it would be frustrating to be one of the younger ones and have to be in the middle or end. But when you only have 15 or so possible years left in a career, you can't afford to save for your kids college (which is coming up in a few years) or retirement. and you don't know how long you can keep up the First Class Medical, it is the only bright spot!! Believe me, I would trade 10 years for a few spots seniority any day.

Thanks to all who have given this information to help those of us going on interviews and into the pool (hopefully). And even if reserve and crew scheduling are the pits, sounds like a great pilot group to work with.

 

[katanabob]

Well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. I am incredibly fortunate to have a job, and I will not lose sight of that.
Best of luck to everyone else. This process has (so far) been much more painless than I thought it would be.

 

[PilotMonkey]

I am ecstatic to have a job and all, but isn't assigning aircraft and domicile essentially on the basis of age a blatant form of discrimination?

I agree whole heartedly! The determination of seniority should be based on experience. For example, I find it extremely unfair that a 35 year old flight instructor with 1500 hrs should get a seniority number better than a 25 year old furloughed 121 guy with 2000 hrs. Age should have nothing to do with it. But if that is what the contract says then there isnt much that can be done. I wonder how old the person who wrote the contract was!!??

 

[Parethd70]

Could it.....

Could it be because you are the 25 year old guy with 2 whole thousand hours??

 

[katanabob]

So what if he is? Maybe it'd be a lot more fair to weight age with experience; i.e. come up with some equation that takes in those two quantities and spits out some kind of raw 'score'. 2000 hours at 25 is x, 2000 hours at 35 scores lower.
Seeing as I am not in any position to make sweeping changes in industry hiring practices, this is all just fluff, though.
It is also interesting that federal age discrimination laws only pertain to persons over age 40.

 

[Colonel Cairo]

I agree whole heartedly! The determination of seniority should be based on experience. For example, I find it extremely unfair that a 35 year old flight instructor with 1500 hrs should get a seniority number better than a 25 year old furloughed 121 guy with 2000 hrs. Age should have nothing to do with it. But if that is what the contract says then there isnt much that can be done. I wonder how old the person who wrote the contract was!!??

And that 25 year old will have 10 years more than the 35 year old to make up for the loss of what, at ASA at least, amounts to maybe 20 numbers. Anyone who comes in at the bottom of the list will be unhappy with the method of determining seniority no matter what it is. And how do you quantify the experience when determining seniority? If it came down to it does someone who flew a 1900 in a 121 environment have more "experience" than someone who flew a charter King Air? How about an ATR vs. a Dash 8? Is someone who instructs in a 172 or Warrior more "experienced" than a guy that teaches in a 152?

I'm not trying to argue here but this "experience" method could wind up being very subjective. At least with age or SS# there's no question about the order of seniority. Unless of course you have 2 people born on the same day.....

 

[PilotoHalcon]

Does anyone have another the web site or fax number where I could pass a resume? The ones posted do not appear to be working.
Thanks,
j

 

[PilotMonkey]

Colonel Cairo,

I agree with you. My point was not that experience should be the sole determining factor when deciding seniority between two people with the same DOH. My point was that I feel it unfair to use only age. For instance, in my new hire class with Eagle there were a couple of people with less than 500 hours total time. Those guys were given a better seniority number than younger guys who had thousands of hours. It may not seem important because it is only a few seniority numbers but, in actuality, it is very important. The senior guys got to choose their Domiciles and the junior guys were stuck with what was left. And not to mention when eagle furloughed, my class was split down the middle at one point, all the junior guys were furloughed and the more senior guys still had jobs. But, with all that said, I agree with katanabob, its all just fluff anyway, just interesting to talk and think about.

On a different note, what do all of you other ASA poolies feel the possibility of a Dec. 2 class is?