ASA Quality of Life

[Exarmykingair]

Just an answer to the Bid question. Oct 21st was the first class to get to bid for their aircraft and domicile. The senior folks got the CRJ200 in ATL and the very junior folks got the 120 in DAL. But as far as it being unfair going by age didn't even come up. To be honest the classes these days are quite different than those of the past. Average age was around 32 and the average flight time was 3900 total. There is a great mix and a lot of guys coming in with prior experience even from the Majors.
It's a great place to be no matter what aircraft you get.


GOOD LUCK!

 

[Medeco]

Aircraft assignment

Katanabob,

I hear what your saying, I think in the contract the seniority goes by DOH then by age and since the class has the same DOH that is the next logical step. I could be wrong, someone correct me if I am.

Medeco

 

[btflyer2]

I had heard they used age for seniority within the new hire classes, which is how they do it at my current airline. And being more mature, it would be a small benefit to me. I guess it would be frustrating to be one of the younger ones and have to be in the middle or end. But when you only have 15 or so possible years left in a career, you can't afford to save for your kids college (which is coming up in a few years) or retirement. and you don't know how long you can keep up the First Class Medical, it is the only bright spot!! Believe me, I would trade 10 years for a few spots seniority any day.

Thanks to all who have given this information to help those of us going on interviews and into the pool (hopefully). And even if reserve and crew scheduling are the pits, sounds like a great pilot group to work with.

 

[katanabob]

Well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. I am incredibly fortunate to have a job, and I will not lose sight of that.
Best of luck to everyone else. This process has (so far) been much more painless than I thought it would be.

 

[PilotMonkey]

I am ecstatic to have a job and all, but isn't assigning aircraft and domicile essentially on the basis of age a blatant form of discrimination?

I agree whole heartedly! The determination of seniority should be based on experience. For example, I find it extremely unfair that a 35 year old flight instructor with 1500 hrs should get a seniority number better than a 25 year old furloughed 121 guy with 2000 hrs. Age should have nothing to do with it. But if that is what the contract says then there isnt much that can be done. I wonder how old the person who wrote the contract was!!??

 

[Parethd70]

Could it.....

Could it be because you are the 25 year old guy with 2 whole thousand hours??

 

[katanabob]

So what if he is? Maybe it'd be a lot more fair to weight age with experience; i.e. come up with some equation that takes in those two quantities and spits out some kind of raw 'score'. 2000 hours at 25 is x, 2000 hours at 35 scores lower.
Seeing as I am not in any position to make sweeping changes in industry hiring practices, this is all just fluff, though.
It is also interesting that federal age discrimination laws only pertain to persons over age 40.

 

[Colonel Cairo]

I agree whole heartedly! The determination of seniority should be based on experience. For example, I find it extremely unfair that a 35 year old flight instructor with 1500 hrs should get a seniority number better than a 25 year old furloughed 121 guy with 2000 hrs. Age should have nothing to do with it. But if that is what the contract says then there isnt much that can be done. I wonder how old the person who wrote the contract was!!??

And that 25 year old will have 10 years more than the 35 year old to make up for the loss of what, at ASA at least, amounts to maybe 20 numbers. Anyone who comes in at the bottom of the list will be unhappy with the method of determining seniority no matter what it is. And how do you quantify the experience when determining seniority? If it came down to it does someone who flew a 1900 in a 121 environment have more "experience" than someone who flew a charter King Air? How about an ATR vs. a Dash 8? Is someone who instructs in a 172 or Warrior more "experienced" than a guy that teaches in a 152?

I'm not trying to argue here but this "experience" method could wind up being very subjective. At least with age or SS# there's no question about the order of seniority. Unless of course you have 2 people born on the same day.....

 

[PilotoHalcon]

Does anyone have another the web site or fax number where I could pass a resume? The ones posted do not appear to be working.
Thanks,
j

 

[PilotMonkey]

Colonel Cairo,

I agree with you. My point was not that experience should be the sole determining factor when deciding seniority between two people with the same DOH. My point was that I feel it unfair to use only age. For instance, in my new hire class with Eagle there were a couple of people with less than 500 hours total time. Those guys were given a better seniority number than younger guys who had thousands of hours. It may not seem important because it is only a few seniority numbers but, in actuality, it is very important. The senior guys got to choose their Domiciles and the junior guys were stuck with what was left. And not to mention when eagle furloughed, my class was split down the middle at one point, all the junior guys were furloughed and the more senior guys still had jobs. But, with all that said, I agree with katanabob, its all just fluff anyway, just interesting to talk and think about.

On a different note, what do all of you other ASA poolies feel the possibility of a Dec. 2 class is?

 

[RyanB727]

ASA Poolie here...

Hey all...

I'm an ASA poolie...interviewed on October 6/7. I am really keeping my fingers crossed about getting into a December class. From what I have heard (maybe it was even earlier in this thread...can't remember now) there are about 50 guys in the pool right now. Also, hiring has slowed a bit because the training department is behind. The only thing we have to worry about now is this rumored deal that Comair has with Delta about giving preferential hiring to furloughed Delta guys. If that trickles over to ASA too we could be sitting in this pool for awhile (Delta apparently just shoved 75 more guys out the door yesterday or the day before...with more to come.). My "inside guy" at ASA is a check airman that knows Loretta pretty well. I'm going to give him a call tomorrow or later this week and see if I can get any good dirt out of him. I'll try to post if I hear anything.

If I have repeated stuff that everybody knows, please forgive me. I hear and read things different places and can't always remember where I saw it. Just doing my part to spread around the rumors too.

 

[PilotMonkey]

Thanks for the update Ryan, keep em comin! Thanks!

 

[sidseal]

The only thing we have to worry about now is this rumored deal that Comair has with Delta about giving preferential hiring to furloughed Delta guys.


I don't know who gave you this information, but, I'm at Comair and we DO NOT give preferential hiring to Delta. It is my understanding that ASA is the one that practices preferential hiring. ALPA has been approached about this and I can't think of one pilot at Comair who thinks this is a good idea. Also, you guys complaining about seniority numbers based on age might want to find a different line of work. That's the way it is, was, and always will be. Get over it and be happy you have a job. Fly the turbo-prop for awhile and bid the jet when you can hold a line. First year pay is the same anyway.

 

[RyanB727]

Preferential Hiring

There is a thread in the "regionals" section called "Delta pilots to get Pref Hiring." That is where I am getting my info about this whole pref hiring thing. I haven;t confirmed it anywhere else so I suppose it could just be message board BS but it looked pretty legit.

Also, yeah get over the seniority thing...you will always feel that you got slighted somehow. I have fought what I perceived to be a seniority injustice at my current airline for a couple of years to no avail. Found out later there were zillions of other guys protesting too. It works the way it works and if you don't like that system then you can have fun in the corporate world stabbing your cubicle neighbor in the back so you'll get promoted first.

Sorry....guess that sounded bitchy. Didn't mean it to....just saying that in the end, a seniority system works out best for all of us.

 

[PilotMonkey]

I don't know who gave you this information, but, I'm at Comair and we DO NOT give preferential hiring to Delta.

...Yet! Hey sidseal get a clue and get informed!

Also, you guys complaining about seniority numbers based on age might want to find a different line of work. That's the way it is, was, and always will be.

Its not called complaining, its called a discusion about how things could be better. Maybe you should come out of your right wing consevative box.

Get over it and be happy you have a job. Fly the turbo-prop for awhile and bid the jet when you can hold a line.

Be happy with what job? I happen to be furloughed, but when I do get a job again It can be assured that I wont take your advice on how to bid! I suppose that being a new hire at comair makes you all knowing.

 

[sidseal]

Yea, I guess we should all follow your vast experience. You obviously know what you are talking about.

 

[wingnutt]

Unless of course you have 2 people born on the same day.....

i hear then it goes to alphabetical spelling of your last name

 

[sleepy]

DAL pilots don't get any preference at ASA. We hire furloughed DAL pilots and do not require them to resign their seniority number at DAL (the right thing to do I believe). They still go through the whole interview process just like any of you would. ASA does not require any furloughed pilot from any airline to resign their seniority number (again, the right thing to do). I hope this clears things up. Also, I don't want to hear any crap about this costing the company extra money, these furloughed pilots will be here for years and years.

On seniority as a new hire, most airlines use age, but some use the last 4 digits of the SSN. One I worked for had you draw numbers from a hat. What is the most fair, I don't know, who does?

 

[btflyer2]

Nov 4th class . . . how's it going ?

I know all of you in the Nov 4th class at ASA are too busy studying to waste time on forums, but just in case you take a break, how bout letting some of the rest of us know how's it going? Did you get your assignments yet? What is the breakdown of planes/domiciles and how many in the class? Any rumors about another training class in December, or is training backed up? Also, what is the schedule of training looking like, are you off on the weekend for the most part ? Also any other good info you know those of us waiting would like to know!!!

Thanks.

 

[Medeco]

Nov. 4th class

BTflyer,

Check the thread "ASA Classes" it has the info your looking for.

Medeco