ASA Quality of Life

[btflyer2]

I have the interview with ASA coming up, and just want to know what it is like to work for them. I know the first year pay is low, but I am more interested in issues like scheduling, benefits, etc.

How long are trips? Do they schedule "standup overnights" , etc. Can you bid a line that is favorable to commuting? What is the training like for a new hire? How long is it?

Thanks for any help. I have a non pilot job opportunity for more money (surprise) and don't want to work for another regional with impossible schedules, bad training programs, etc.

 

[Medeco]

Hey,

I am in the pool for ASA, so I can't speak with first hand knowledge. I will tell what I see from the outside looking in. I have 4 good friends who currently work for ASA ranging from currently in training to being there since the company began.

From what I see, the first year FO will work alot for a little pay as you stated, but I can't see where that isn't true for any job. If your on the RJ then I don't think it is as busy on reserve as if your on the EMB120. Playing the game with crew scheduling is also going to determine alot from what I see. I know a guy who was reserve on the EMB120 and lived close to ATL, they figured out he was going to be there everytime they called and he became their Bitch for a while and they worked him to death. I think crew scheduling is the "enemy "at any airline for the reserve pilot so you take the bad with the good at any job. On the other side I see a second year guy who was EMB FO for a year then went RJ FO in ATL and he has more free time then I have had in years, he holds a line.

As I understand it the training department is very good overall, the RJ training is modern and the EMB training is old school and tough, but I suppose that depends on if you have been in class at 121 op's before. I know nothing about the ATR training.

The people at ASA are very nice from the ones I have met in management, and pilots are pilots.

I am looking foward to working with these people, but I am also an excited new hire so my opinion could be very different in a year, but I don't expect that.

Good luck on the interview.

 

[AutoTransfer]

Trips are quite variable - 1 day to 4 days

Standups are very popular with Crew Planning. Their poplularity with pilots depends on who you talk to. I, for one, dispise them, but holding a CDO line is better than reserve. (That also should clue you in on how I feel about sitting reserve.)

It took me about a 9 months to start holding a line that is easily commutable, and that was on the junior aircraft in the company. It will take much longer on the jet. There are many lines built that allow a commute, however.

Training - when I went through (Summer 2001)
- 2 weeks Indoctrination
- 2 weeks Systems and Operations Ground
- 7 Sim Sessions
- 2 Flight Sessions
- 1 FO Proficiency Check

The Flight training portion can take 2 - 4 weeks depending on instructor, simulator, and aircraft availability. The above is for the E-120. I believe jet training is a little longer. I've also heard that your check ride is now mostly done in the simulator with some follow up flight training in the aircraft after the ride. Can anyone who has gone through initial training recently clarify this?

Long story short - Your life belongs to sCrew Scheduling while you are on reserve and this can be pretty rough. They don't seem concerned about a reserve pilots quality of life. However, once holding a line, life gets much better. CS can still mess with you a little, but they tend not to as much.

Don't anyone take this the wrong way, I am in no way complaining. I love my job and if I were still sitting reserve for ASA it would be 100% better than the old desk job I used to have, I'm just trying to help btflyer2 get an idea of what its like once you have the job.

Best of luck with your decision and your interview.

Tailwinds,
AT

 

[sleepy]

Btflyer2,

I have been at ASA for two years now. The quality of life here really depends on where you are coming from. I have spent only one month on reserve here. My life is pretty good. I usually fly CDOs because I like the time off and don't need much sleep (I usually get around 5 hours of real sleep on a CDO). You may be on reserve for six to nine months depending on our growth and the aircraft you are assigned to. Commuting on reserve at ASA is not much of a life to look forward to.

 

[Boxer]

CRJ-200 training during summer of 2001 consisted of:

- 2 weeks Basic Indoc
- 2 weeks Systems
- 1 week Ops Module
- 2 days CRM (crew resource management)
- 4 days CPT (cockpit procedures training)
- 8 sim sessions (each being 3 hours ground + 4 in the box)
- 121 checkride (all in the sim)
- LOFT (line oriented flight training, 1 sim session)
- IOE (2 - 3 weeks depending on scheduling, 20-30 hours flight)

For me, it was exactly three months from day 1 of Indoc until line qualified. Training department was outstanding. Will work with most pilots as much as they need it. Great instructors for the most part, ground and sim.

As for QOL, I've been in Dallas from day one on the CRJ and life's been pretty good (except for the 1st year pay). Only sat reserve one month. Few 800 hours my first year. Only flew one nap line (continuous duty overnights). The rest have been regular or relief lines. I've probably averaged 70 - 85 hours per month with 10 - 14 days off. There are a lot of variables. You may swap and drop trips with open time as well, allowing you to semi-craft your own schedule for more or less flying, different days off, etc...

I have commuted successfully with virtually no problems from day one. Never been late or missed a trip. Never been junior manned, only been extended twice. Great group of pilots to fly with. Brand new airplanes. Nice destinations (depending on your point of view: New York, Toronto, Charleston, S.C., Savannah, Ottawa, Monterrey MXCO, Montreal, to name a few) Second year FO pay jumps up considerably on the RJ (currently $ 33.81. Roughly 34K/ year plus throw in 4 - 5 K additional for per diem).

Contract negotiations currently underway. Will almost certainly include trip/duty rigs, increased min # of days off per month, commuter clause, longer reserve callouts, retirement in some form, compensation to match industry leading plus a few percent, etc...

In short, not a major but not a bad place to be. Up there with Air Wis and Comair, and for sure after the contract is done. Anyway, keep in mind that this was my experience and I've been on the RJ in DFW the whole time. Second year E-120 FOs out in ATL may not paint so rosy a picture but I don't know. Good luck.

 

[btflyer2]

Wow, I really appreciate everyone taking the time to post this info. I have been working for a bottom feeder commuter just long enough to wonder if this is all worth it. So these issues are very important to me.

If offered a job, I would probably want Dallas and to minimize reserve time as I will have to commute at least until year 2. Also, would try to minimize time in training, at least initially. Would bidding for the EMB be my best bet initially? I understand they are being phased out? When is that? Where would you go from there?

I would also be one of your more mature pilots, so what would you say would be the quickest upgrade?

Thanks also for the update on the hopes for the next contract. Do you think they might raise that 1st year pay???? Wishful thinking.

 

[Boxer]

Most of the growth seems to be in Dallas. There have been a significant number of upgrade awards recently on both aircraft here, with probably twice as many vacancies posted for FOs. In short, you have a good chance of getting Dallas but it's still a crap shoot. Obviously, you can bid out there later if you don't get it right off.

E-120s being phased out of Atlanta sometime next year (supposedly). ATL guys can give you more of the lowdown on that. Apparently we're keeping them in Dallas, and as the jet lines grow, the Brasilia appears to be going more and more junior. Latest upgade went at around 1-1/2 years with the company I believe.

Training's going to be around 3 months start to finish on either aircraft. IOE can be done in DFW or ATL. Also, lot's of CRJ-700s on the way next year. I guess we'll see 'em in Dallas at some point. Point being the senior folks (CPTs and FOs) clearing out of the way on the 200, a windfall for everybody. Current jet upgrades in DFW around 2.5 years, E-120 around 1.5 years. This is current status ONLY. ATL times differ and that could all change tomorrow. Future looks very bright however with scheduled deliveries, if they continue.

What else... first year pay will certainly go up with the new contract. Again, look for Comair plus a few. I don't know what it is over there exactly but I think around $ 23 - 24 Hr. Also though, remember the contract could take a few years.

As for the "mature" factor, look for pilots of all ages and backgrounds at ASA, and all are looking for the upgrade (not just for the 121 PIC but the PAY). Most recent interviewees I hear are primarily furloughed major and other 121 types, along with ex-military and a smattering of the usual balance. My new hire class ages ranged from 23 - 47 with 35 or so around the average I guess. Upgrade may be quicker on the E-120 in Dallas but QOL may be an issue there. However, some jet FOs are going over to E-120 CPT when they can hold it. Decisions, decisions....
Good luck. Feel free to send me a private message if you have any more questions.

 

[RyanB727]

CDO??

Hey all...

I'm in the pool at ASA and all this info has been really helpful. Most of it I have read or heard other places already but its still nice to see all this so I can confirm what I already know (or THINK I know...).

I have seen this enough times though that I finally have to ask. WHAT is a CDO? I know what it stands for but I guess I just don't understand what it is exactly. Can anyone explain?

 

[Boxer]

CDO: Continuous duty overnight, also referred to as "naps" or "stand-ups."

Basically, you duty in late in the evening and stay on duty throughout the night, even though you may be asleep at the hotel. Then you fly the early, first flight out back to domicile from wherever it was you went. The purpose of it is so that the company does not have to stage an additional crew at the outstation to make the early flight the next morning, or worry about your rest requirements, etc... You still have your max duty day of 16 hours (FAA), you just begin at night and duty out when you get back in the morning. I hope that made sense.

Pros:

Off during the day every day of the month if you hold a pure nap line.

Not real hard work. Show up at night, go fly an hour or so, go to bed, fly back in the morning, off all day.

Scheduling can rarely draft you after a CDO because you're nearly maxed on on duty time when you return.

Guaranteed two days off after three on, which is more like 3 on 4 off because you get off early on the last day and show up at night on the day you start.

Commutable because of the late show time and early duty out time on the last day. But, you'll have two days at domicile to hang out so you'll need a place to hang out.

Cons:

Not much flying. Nap lines average 30-40 hours a month.

Terrible for your health. Havoc upon your body and circadian rythym. Usually 3 - 5 hours sleep per night max. Delays getting off can mean NO sleep. Too bad, you're on duty.

Same outstations over and over all month. Out of DFW it's places like Texarkana, Lubbock, Amarillo, Shreveport, Killeen, Midland, Jackson to name a few.

Well, I hope that paints the picture. Everything you ever wanted to know about CDOs. Actually there's probably more but you get the picture. ALSO, Comair I believe is guaranteed three days off after a block of CDOs (Comair guys correct me if I'm wrong). Look for that in ASA's contract as well. That would make them much more desirable, kind of like 5 days off in a row. Right now in DFW naps generally go senior for captains and junior for FOs. Didn't mean to turn this into a dissertation. Hope it helps and see ya on line.

 

[btflyer2]

Once again, thanks for the informative reply. This is a wealth of information that I hope I get the opportunity to use. We'll find out after the interview. It might be better for me to try for the 200 to start, as I am sure they do not hire into the 700 with my experience.

I am guessing all the training is in Atlanta? What is the breakdown of which aircraft is in DFW or ATlanta? If the EMB is leaving Atl will it stay in DFW?

What kind of training is required to go from 200 to 700? Are guys going from 200 CA to 700 CA? And is there a pay increase from the 200 to go to 700? I think I saw the current pay and it appeared to be the same pay for 200's and 700"s.


Lastly, are Delta furloughees getting hired with ASA?
Thanks for all the info.

 

[Boxer]

Unfortunately, you will be placed in whatever aircraft and domicile the company decides to put you in. You can, of course, put in a bid preference for something else right away but it may take a while.

Some new hires have been getting the 700. Aircraft assignment is not experience based. No particular assignment pattern. They expect anyone they hire to be able to get through any training program and eventually be captain on any and/or all aircraft.

Training is in ATL at ASA headquarters and Flight Safety next door.

Aircraft: ATL: EMB-120 (to be phased out next year sometime rumor has it), ATR-72, CRJ-200, CRJ-700

DFW: EMB-120 (Brasilias to remain), CRJ-200

Differences training (I believe) for CRJ-200 to CRJ-700

Yes, Captains and FOs are bidding over to the 700. Some junior FOs and captains I might add. Junior pilots on the aircraft run the risk of being on reserve a VERY long time.

There IS a pay differential between the 200 and 700. Top end CPT pay on 700 over $100/hr. Again, this will parallel Comair at some point which is around $120/hr top end throughout life of contract.

Yes, we are hiring Delta furloughees, among other major and 121 furloughees.

 

[Old Crow]

All will agree, ASA is a great airline as long as the aircraft are pushed away from the gate. I don't think you will find a better training department or pilot group. The maintenance department does excellent work. We don't fly unsafe aircraft.

However... I have observed that this airline is run as a very low cost carrier and operates with 10 less workers in every area than we need. This creates a great deal of problems that we all end up blaming each other and finally it all comes back to crew scheduling.

Due to the low cost structure, it's difficult for the company to hire employees that have knowledge or experience and maintain dedication and pride for ASA.

I would classify ASA as a place to gain experience to move on later.
The company is trying, however, right now they seem to be beating a dead horse.

 

[shamrock]

ASA is operating with too few CRJ FOs in ATL right now and and seem to be sending all the new hires to DFW. ???!! Captains flying right seat in ATL have been common. Today is my 21st day on reserve this month and as soon as I get the call from screw scheduling I'll be a perfect 21 for 21 flying in October. Not that bad if you are holding a line and know ahead of time what you are doing but not too much fun when on reserve.

As Auto Transfer said, crew scheduling couldn't care less about your quality of life when on reserve. They go home at the end of their shift no matter what and don't seem to be accountable for anything they do. They are an ongoing problem at ASA but thankfully we have a good group of Chief Pilots in ATL who don't hold scheduling in high regard. You'll still be responsible if you screw up but if scheduling tries to pull something they'll go to bat for you.

Well, gotta go. I just got the call. This job can be fun but crew scheduling certainly does their best to ruin it!

 

[sleepy]

ASA is operating with too few CRJ FOs in ATL right now and and seem to be sending all the new hires to DFW. ???!! Captains flying right seat in ATL have been common. Today is my 21st day on reserve this month and as soon as I get the call from screw scheduling I'll be a perfect 21 for 21 flying in October. Not that bad if you are holding a line and know ahead of time what you are doing but not too much fun when on reserve.

As Auto Transfer said, crew scheduling couldn't care less about your quality of life when on reserve. They go home at the end of their shift no matter what and don't seem to be accountable for anything they do. They are an ongoing problem at ASA but thankfully we have a good group of Chief Pilots in ATL who don't hold scheduling in high regard. You'll still be responsible if you screw up but if scheduling tries to pull something they'll go to bat for you.

Well, gotta go. I just got the call. This job can be fun but crew scheduling certainly does their best to ruin it!

Wow, what a difference an aircraft assignment can make. I have been on 70 seat RJ reserve this month and have only flown 4 days. I guess CS sucks, I don't know, they hardly ever call me.

 

[Medeco]

Aircraft assignment

btflyer,

I would change one thing that Boxer said in an earlier post about aircraft assignment. In the past they have simply assigned you to a plane/domicile at the start without a choice.

As of the Oct 21st class they changed it a bit, at least for that class they did and I will find out on the 4th of Nov. if they continue the new way. The new way is to post the open slots of planes/domiciles and allow you to bid on day one of class.

Example:

6-RJ/DFW

7-RJ/ATL

5-ATR/ATL

6-E120/DFW

They will give it to you on age seniority in your class ,if you get your bid your seat locked for 1 year in the plane. If your young you can count on the E120/DFW. The current stated goal is to have this plane based in Dallas by June of 03, but things change so you never know.

 

[Boxer]

Thanks for the update, I wasn't aware of that. Good, I suppose, for the older new hires.

 

[mcbecker]

Medeco,

I hope you are correct in saying they bid the aircraft by senority/age. I'm in the Nov 4th class so I'll let you all know
if this is true.

 

[sleepy]

I am glad to hear that they are assiging aircraft based on your seniority within the new hire class. This is the way it should have been done all along. When I came through two years ago, they put you where they wanted you, and paid no attention to seniority.

I would think that most of the junior pilots will end up on the 70 seat RJ, that is where the longest potential reserve time and worst schedules will be found.

 

[Boxer]

Congrats to you new hires coming in on the 4th. Just FYI, the December prelims showed these openings for the new hire class on that date:

(5) ATL ATR-72
(5) ATL CRJ-200
(0) ATL CRJ-700
(0) ATL E-120

(10) DFW CRJ-200
(5) DFW E-120

Regarding bidding, be aware that most of the growth at ASA over the last two years has been at DFW. Those who don't want to sit on reserve for a year or more may want to consider this if they let you bid by age now during new hire class. Long standing rumors as well as company literature has stated the intended, continued growth of the DFW base. ie: holding a line much quicker. In Dallas, I sat on reserve only one month and most others only a few more. Not trying to diss' ATL at all, I may bid out there eventually, but only on the 70 and when I can hold a line. New hires that I went to class with summer of 2001 who got ATL CRJ and E-120 are only JUST NOW holding low seniority relief lines. ATR guys had it a little better. Anyway, just something to think about. There's only one way to say it: reserve $ucks big-time. Either way, congrats again and welcome!

 

[katanabob]

I am ecstatic to have a job and all, but isn't assigning aircraft and domicile essentially on the basis of age a blatant form of discrimination? I know this accusation was made a LONG time ago at FedEx, which prompted them to assign seniority within a class based on a 'random' criteria--the last four digits of your SSN.
I am not trying to complain, just asking a simple question about why they chose to do it that way. (I think if I was older, I wouldn't be asking.) I am excited to fly whatever they'll let me, but the prospect of possibly being assigned something through whatever voodoo they used to used sounded much better than getting whatever's left. (I know, welcome to the seniority system.)