ASA Pilots.. Is this what you are happy with?

[shamrock]

The company will always try and violate any agreement we have.

Forgive me if I'm getting into semantics, but if this company's goal is to "violate" any agreement that we have then we've really have made a poor decision accepting a job here.

Pushing the contract to the limits I can understand, but to willingly "violate" it, as they seem to be doing now, that shows what they really think of us.

The longer this goes on, the less I care about this company/job and the more I want to join Palerider at a cocktail party, molotov type. If that puts me in the minority, then so be it. I can live with that.

 

[InclusiveScope]

Why do you think that "GOOD JOB" is GOOD?

I will tell you

That "GOOD JOB" is good because people before you have sacrificed everthing (including job security). In order to keep it good you/we have to be willing to sacrifice everything.. If we as a pilot group are not willing to sacrifice everything (informational picketing, leagal job actions, STRIKE) that "GOOD JOB" will be worthless!!!!

Your right in that the only reason the airline pilot job is so good is because of previous actions by ALPA. No argument there. However the ability to use the tool of collective bargaining and self help has been neutered by ALPA's inability to react to the changing industry that resulted from deregulation. That inability to change with the times is largely to blame for this job becoming Wo(e)rthless.

Without the rest of the contract, job security is worthless.. you see my point..., Why do you want to secure a worthless job? Why not support contract negotiations and fight for jobs security?

What is the point of haveing SCOPE, and all that job security if your quality of life and your pay is completley worthless. Why are you willing to give up what we already have for SCOPE and Job Security..

You should know as well as I do that Job Security and Airlines are like Apples and Oranges.. They just dont jive. (example: 9/11, recession of the early 80's and 90's, things out of our control).

We're not the far apart. I think we both believe that BOTH are necessary. It comes down to a chicken vs. egg argument. Which one comes first? I believe you need to focus on the scope first so that you CAN IMPROVE the rest. If you go after the other first, you will end up with neither.

 

[InclusiveScope]

TRUTH!

Even without a side occupation I am willing to push DAL/ASA for all they are worth, whatever the consequences to my job, ASA or DAL!

I will never sellout while management lines their pockets, and I hope the pilot group I joined feels the same way!

I can live with that, HOWEVER currently we are only negotiating with ASA. ASA is only a puppet of DAL. You need to bring DAL to the table, and ALPA is unwilling to do that.

 

[InclusiveScope]

Ship 883... flew it recently, painted over tail number and all. Rumor on the line is that it's a hangar queen what with all of the writeups. It must be one of the most written up planes in the fleet, it barely ever flies... wonder why?

The first day we flew it, is the day we lost the powerful tool of self help. It should never have flown in the first place. Essentially, we were forced to fly struck work in more ways than one.

 

[av8tor4239]

What I don't understand is this: why is your (av8, etc.) opinion the right one? who decided your ideals are right for all of us?

My opinion and my actions are what is going to get this contract negotiated.. Your opinion and your actions will do nothing but prolong the violations of our agreement and negotiations!

If you a truly as unhappy as you claim to be, maybe you should seek someting that will make you happy. As you say, life is too short for you to go through it mad. Maybe this is not what you need to be doing with your life. Nobody can decide that but you.

You are right! I am angry, and sick and tired of getting shafted by our company. I am tired of the VIOLATIONS of the contract... I am tired of being bypassed by newhires, I am tired of operating on a 1998 contract! We NEED COMPLIANCE we need to get this done.. Until then my "militant" A$$ will be out there supporting the CNC and whatever else is asked of me to fix the problem!

We will continue to have faith that our groups (ALPA/ASA) will be able to reach an agreement that will suit each of us and will allow ASA to continue to profit and prosper.

Faith will not get our managment to the table on time.. Faith will not get the violations of the contract to stop.. You can pray all you want, but FAITH will not cut it!
How do you think that this agreement will be accomplished? Your actions will do nothing but prolong our negotiations and violations, my actions on the other hand WILL get the ball rolling by putting pressure on mangagment to get to the table and negotiate!

If I believe that we should not have walked out, I'll stay home.

I think i just threw up in my mouth... UHGH! Just stay home

If that means that I personally have to walk up stairs to get my release, toss a bag or two or even wash the dead bugs off my windshield...all things I have done many times over the years I've been here. We will do our part to keep ASA profitable and near the top of our slice of this industry.

Have you ever heard of SP 358 paragraph G..
IT states that we are "TO NOT CALL FOR THINGS THAT ARE CONSIDERED NORMAL PROCEEDURES.. DO NOT CALL FOR CATERING, DO NOT CALL FOR LAV DUMP, DO NOT CALL FOR FUEL, DO NOT CALL FOR RELEASE

Even the company is saying " DONT DO IT, IT IS NOT YOUR FREAKING
JOB"

SP 358 paragraph G everyone needs to read it

 

[Plug]

How can you compare this job to slavery? If this is "slavery", then why did you take the position. You must be an idiot to voluntarily become a "slave". Were you forced to become this "slave"? Are you being forced to stay a "slave". How can ALPA stop this "slavery"?

This is exactly the argument that has turned me off to ALPA. Where else do people crawl over each other to get a job, then claim they are "slaves" after they "begged, borrowed and stole" to get there. On top of that, they actually believe they have leverage when their union "brothers" are waiting in the shadows to take their place.

Absolutely amazing!

What is absolutely amazing is how you can twist words around. I do not compare this to "slavery" back in the day, that dog won't hunt. When I hired on at ASA we had an industry leading contract, we still have that contract and it is not so industry leading. We had an airline that was somewhat staffed properly then, right now we have less than 20 CA's on reserve in ATL for the month of march, and just under 30 for the month of April. Like I said in my previous post, this is a good job, however, it could and should be better.

I also didn't crawl all over people to get this job nor did I PFT, I had 3 airlines give me class dates and I went to the soonest class. You call me an idiot when you are the one satisfied with the staus quo. Sorry not all of us are so blind.

You ask what ALPA can do about this, and I say a lot. XJT just signed a new deal that I would love to see here at ASA, but we aren't going to get that until our pilots show management that we mean business and are sick of the current sittuation.

You make the comment that you have more days off than your friends and they are jealous. Is this your measurement of a good job? Do you ever care to ask them what a typical day at work was for them? How many different time zones they slept in for one week of work? How about comparing W2's? If your friends are in another profession and not just a "job" there is a good chance that they make more than you.

 

[av8tor4239]

Yes these things bother me, however much of the blame rests on our side also. The company will always try and violate any agreement we have. The company will always drag our negotiations to avoid paying out more money. Essentially that is their job and it is no different than most other carriers. It is our side that I am dissapointed in.

So you are saying it is ok to violate the contract, and you are willing and able to bend over and take it up the #$@% over and over again!

A strike is the ONLY way you will get major improvements. So to get what you want, you have talk strike, and want to strike. Otherwise it is nothing but empty rhetoric. If you want to stike, you have to be willing to walk away FOREVER.
Not every situation is the same. I voted YES to strike last time. Today I would vote NO.

As I said earlier, I am willing to strike and willing to lose my job.. I am not willing to conceede so Mgmt can line thier pockets some more.

ASA Driver:

You are confused.. our informational picketting has nothing to do with getting a release to self help, it has to do with getting mangement to the table to do what should have been done a long time ago! negotiate in good faith. Our frustration does not mean we are going to strike.. The only people talking strike are people like you and oh please and the others that do not support our negotiations.. everyone has their breaking point.. What is yours?
WIll you work for free?.. How much can they take from you before you will demonstrate your frustration?

THIS IS NOT ABOUT SUPPORTING THE LEADERSHIP IN THE MEC, This is about supporting the negotiation of a fair contract, a contract that will CONTROL your life when it gets signed..

Again, read the first post in this thread... Management wants us to give up what we already have... (hotel in domicile after 6hr on gnd).

 

[Plug]

Ship 896, 897,and 898 were the strike birds with the 3A engines and have since been returned to CMR. The 88 series airplanes (with the exception of 880) are all 40 seat airplanes that were to be made for CMR just prior to the strike but not paid for. They sat in YUL for some time before Delta decided to deliver them to ASA. If you notice they still have CMR interiors in them.

 

[ohplease!]

Have you ever heard of SP 358 paragraph G..
IT states that we are "TO NOT CALL FOR THINGS THAT ARE CONSIDERED NORMAL PROCEEDURES.. DO NOT CALL FOR CATERING, DO NOT CALL FOR LAV DUMP, DO NOT CALL FOR FUEL, DO NOT CALL FOR RELEASE

Heck yeah I've heard of it. I figure if they can break our contract and mess with you so much, the least I can do is rebel and break their rules and get back at 'em for ya.

No need to say thanks, its been my pleasure.

 

[ASADriver]

So you are saying it is ok to violate the contract, and you are willing and able to bend over and take it up the #$@% over and over again!

No, that's not what I said. I personally haven't had the same experience you have had. As far as the contract being violated, that will never change and that happens at EVERY CARRIER. Name me one ALPA carrier that doesn't have a grievance committee.

As I said earlier, I am willing to strike and willing to lose my job..

Good for you. I'm not willing to strike and lose my job. I guess my vote cancels your vote and we'll leave it at that.

You are confused.. our informational picketting has nothing to do with getting a release to self help, it has to do with getting mangement to the table to do what should have been done a long time ago! negotiate in good faith. Our frustration does not mean we are going to strike.. The only people talking strike are people like you and oh please and the others that do not support our negotiations.. everyone has their breaking point.. What is yours?
WIll you work for free?..

First of all, the informational picketing is a waist of time. Second, the "only people talking stike are people like you and oh please..." part is laughable since just above that you said you are "willing to stike and lose your job". Which is it av8tor????

 

[ohplease!]

No, that's not what I said. I personally haven't had the same experience you have had. As far as the contract being violated, that will never change and that happens at EVERY CARRIER. Name me one ALPA carrier that doesn't have a grievance committee.







Good for you. I'm not willing to strike and lose my job. I guess my vote cancels your vote and we'll leave it at that.




First of all, the informational picketing is a waist of time. Second, the "only people talking stike are people like you and oh please..." part is laughable since just above that you said you are "willing to stike and lose your job". Which is it av8tor????

I can't believe you put me in with junior there....that makes me a little sad

 

[ASADriver]

I can't believe you put me in with junior there....that makes me a little sad

Ohplease,
Re-read it. That is av8tor's quote, not mine. I was quoting him when he said that you and I are the only ones talking strike. I found that quote of his confusing since he just finished saying that he was willing to stike. Just pointing out another of av8tors mistakes. I know you have more sense than junior does.

 

[ohplease!]

oh, duh....sorry...too much time in a motel room.........

 

[atrdriver]

that happens at EVERY CARRIER. Name me one ALPA carrier that doesn't have a grievance committee.

Yes, every carrier has a grievence commitee. The difference is simple. 2 years ago we had very few grievences, and the ones that we had were in general settled fairly quickly. Now we have somewhere in the vicinity of a hundred or more, and the company immediatly denies each and every one. In fact, one of out leaders was heard by a MEC officer saying that as long as the company figured the cost of settling a grievence in the future was less than the cost of a current violation that they would violate the contract. A carrier that respects it's employees would not be looking for ways to violate an agreement that they signed in good faith. A carrier that respected it's employees would treat them with respect and watch those employees go out of their way for the company. I have been on the management side of a unionized workforce, and I know for a fact that if you treat your people well they will perform for you. If you treat them like cr@p you get what we have here.

 

[InclusiveScope]

Yes, every carrier has a grievence commitee. The difference is simple. 2 years ago we had very few grievences, and the ones that we had were in general settled fairly quickly. Now we have somewhere in the vicinity of a hundred or more, .

Actually, per the grievance chairman, we have fewer grievances this year than last year at this time. Only 6 grievances have been filed so far this year.

 

[av8tor4239]

First of all, the informational picketing is a waist of time.

Why dont you tell that to JOHN RICE THE CNC CHAIRMAN, That is begging for our participation in informational picketing.. Dont you think that the Chairman of our CNC would know if it is helping or not..

You freak

 

[pianoman]

No. Getting involved only clouds your judgement with useless facts. Remain uninvolved. Don't listen to anyone who may be more informed than you are. Under no circumstances admit they may be right.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

ASADriver-

First of all, the informational picketing is a waist of time.

I think you meant waste, unless you're talking about your gut. Normally, I couldn't care less how we pilots mispell words here, however, if you're gonna sh$t on our efforts to get a contract then I must.

 

[ohplease!]

[/QUOTE1]

ASADriver-



I think you meant waste, unless you're talking about your gut. Normally, I couldn't care less how we pilots mispell words here, however, if you're gonna sh$t on our efforts to get a contract then I must.

oh look everyone! an english major!

 

[pianoman]

No just someone who finished high school apparently.

 

[Poppa Hodax]

Wooderson

No just someone who finished high school apparently.

That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older, they stay the same age.

 

[pianoman]

lol....