ASA pilot surplus...

[McNugent]

fo shizzle my nizzle

 

[Texx]

The 80% rule is a combo of ASA/Skywest, not just Skywest.

The 80% rule applies to future flying up for bid, not current flying, which is locked for 15 years.

For example if Delta puts new flying up for bid that cuts into 80% that flying will go to ASA/Skywest as long as they are the 2nd lowest bidder or better.

Delta, in its sole discretion, shall establish and publish all schedules for the Aircraft, including city-pairs served, frequencies, and timing of scheduled departures. Where practical, Delta will collaborate with ASA to determine mutually optimal schedules. ASA shall operate the Aircraft in the city pairs designated by Delta, subject to the frequency, scheduling and other requirements established by Delta from time to time. In addition, it is agreed and understood that Delta may utilize and schedule any of the Aircraft to perform various charter operations on behalf of Delta as can be reasonably accommodated by ASA. Notwithstanding the above, but subject to reduction as provided elsewhere in this Agreement, Delta covenants and agrees that during each year of the “Term” (as defined in Article 11 hereof), (i) ASA shall be scheduled to operate not less than [***] of all Delta Connection Program departures scheduled at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (“Hartsfield”) and (ii) [***] ((i) and (ii) above, collectively, the “ATL Departure Percentages.”)

It has nothing to do with future growth.

 

[JettBoii]

Where did the 300 pilot number come from?

 

[Erlanger]

I think that BH has brought over the same deal from SkyWest. They don't like to furlough. It's not good for anyone.

It's not good for guys that like to fly alot. We have guys at Skywest that are bitching we need to furlough so they can fly their usual 100 hrs a month. With the excess pilots the average pilot gets only 80 hrs now. Some of the senior guys are complaining it's equivalent to taking a paycut because of it.

 

[ehaecker]

Must be nice to be senior enough to wish your fellow pilots out of a job just so you can make more money.

 

[Erlanger]

Must be nice to be senior enough to wish your fellow pilots out of a job just so you can make more money.

I think it's funny how some of these same guys talked about pilot unity during the ALPA drive here but now they're quick to toss aside their fellow pilots when it effects their pockets. But this is everywhere; in every airline you'll have pilots like this, union or non-union. Everyone talks tough but in the end it's about ourselves, right?

 

[BWatz]

It's not good for guys that like to fly alot. We have guys at Skywest that are bitching we need to furlough so they can fly their usual 100 hrs a month. With the excess pilots the average pilot gets only 80 hrs now. Some of the senior guys are complaining it's equivalent to taking a paycut because of it.

I am at a loss for words... WTF is wrong with people?

 

[Flybywire44]

The 80% rule is a combo of ASA/Skywest, not just Skywest.

The 80% rule applies to future flying up for bid, not current flying, which is locked for 15 years.

For example if Delta puts new flying up for bid that cuts into 80% that flying will go to ASA/Skywest as long as they are the 2nd lowest bidder or better.

No, not future flying and if we don't stay the 2nd cheapest it goes out the window. I don't know if its ASA or ASA/Skywest. Bottom line is since our metrics are off we stand to face no or negative growth. Oh well... :crying:

 

[PooPooPants]

It's not good for guys that like to fly alot. We have guys at Skywest that are bitching we need to furlough so they can fly their usual 100 hrs a month. With the excess pilots the average pilot gets only 80 hrs now. Some of the senior guys are complaining it's equivalent to taking a paycut because of it.

I hate to say it but I heard a few senior captains make the same statement the other day while I was sitting RR at ASA.

 

[I_Love_Lamp]

Wow, a furlough is less painful than sitting around a crash pad making min guarantee. At least you can work at Mcdonalds and make more out in the real world.

Clearly you've never been furloughed.

 

[Goose Egg]

I think it's funny how some of these same guys talked about pilot unity during the ALPA drive here but now they're quick to toss aside their fellow pilots when it effects their pockets. But this is everywhere; in every airline you'll have pilots like this, union or non-union. Everyone talks tough but in the end it's about ourselves, right?

Ain't that the truth! Is there any room left under the bus? And the same ones that rail the hardest for "unity" are usually the worst bus-throwers out there. I see how they are: Unity when it benefits them. I wake up in cold sweats during the night worried about turning into one of these types!

-Goose

 

[JumpersAway]

Wow, a furlough is less painful than sitting around a crash pad making min guarantee. At least you can work at Mcdonalds and make more out in the real world.

Correct me if I'm wrong- but could you not just arrange your own furlough through a COLA bid over the next few months. They're practically begging people to take them. Why not do it and then snag another job for a few months at Best Buy?

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Has there been any word of guys asking for a COMA line and being turned down?

 

[Texx]

I hate to say it but I heard a few senior captains make the same statement the other day while I was sitting RR at ASA.

And just the other day I heard some FOs talking about how the senior pilots need to retire so they can upgrade.

It works both ways. It's become the "all about me" culture.

 

[blesko]

...to get an upgrade and go where? Some fail to realize that they have yet to pay their dues, and their life is a fast track to the left seat; and now it comes time to pay them. If you're junior, you run that risk, the industry has been like this for decades. Those that haven't studied this industy and career profession, try reading a book called "Hard Landing."

Luckily, I've never been through a furlough, but I believe (no kool aid here) that BH has this companys' best interests in mind (relatively speaking). Not expecting anything good or bad......yet.

If you're in the bottom 10% of any list, start looking, Get a CFI if you dont have one - if you choose to fly. Learn something. Work on another degree. Unity works well during a contract, for the mere fact that each member MAY receive something in it for them. Unity when it comes time to furlough, doesn't exist.

 

[Papa Woody]

Unity doesn't exist, period.

It's the appearance of unity that drives altruistic behavior, but when your ass is on the line, it's every man for himself.

 

[SSDD]

Ain't that the truth! Is there any room left under the bus? And the same ones that rail the hardest for "unity" are usually the worst bus-throwers out there. I see how they are: Unity when it benefits them. I wake up in cold sweats during the night worried about turning into one of these types!

-Goose

Although I agree with the company's policy of avoiding a furlough, there is a lesson to be learned. Unity is about helping each other, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

A few months ago a lot of the junior guys thought their generation was God's gift to world. A jet job, quick upgrade, and then on to a major. Who wants to hang out with these senior losers? Who needs a union? Then, reality hits! Now they want help from those same losers, and the senior guys are thinking; if they would have helped during the union drive, we may be a little more inclined to help during these time, but as it is...

Not saying its right, but I understand how they feel.

 

[Goose Egg]

Although I agree with the company's policy of avoiding a furlough, there is a lesson to be learned. Unity is about helping each other, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

A few months ago a lot of the junior guys thought their generation was God's gift to world. A jet job, quick upgrade, and then on to a major. Who wants to hang out with these senior losers? Who needs a union? Then, reality hits! Now they want help from those same losers, and the senior guys are thinking; if they would have helped during the union drive, we may be a little more inclined to help during these time, but as it is...

Not saying its right, but I understand how they feel.

Good point.

It seemed like in my class, everyone was pretty down-to-earth. It might have been due to the fact that we didn't yet have "jet jobs." ( My bid is in though. ) We just missed the cut-off to vote last year also. (I'd personally like to see a 'real' union on the property... just not ALPA... But I digress.) And if I had been expecting a quick upgrade, I'm certainly no longer doing so!

But the point is well taken. It should be a "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine." I can understand where those senior guys are coming from--not saying that I agree with them, or even that their logic is valid (because some of them seem to assume that the decision to furlough or not is their decision, and that's simply not the case), but gosh, wouldn't be nice if there actually was some real unity in the world? I mean, I think our company gets a bad rap because we voted down the union, but looking around at other regional carriers, I don't really see any appreciable difference in what I would consider "real unity."

Anyway, /rant.

-Goose

 

[JoeMerchant]

Anyone who thinks there is TRUE "brotherhood" in this business.....isn't paying attention.....

USAPA/AWA/AAA, DAL/NWA, AA/TWA, Regional vs. Mainline, Age 60 pro/con, saving retirement vs. furlough, senior vs. junior, and the General vs everyone.......

 

[jegermeister]

Is there a "NO FURLOUGH" Clause in the ASA contract???

Yes there is a no furlough clause. But it only protects the people that signed the contract last year. Any new hire since then isn't covered.

If I remember correctly, there are about 150 f/o's unprotected. There are also contingencies the company can use to furlough those on the protected list.

I would think that the company is waiting for the holidays to pass before they cut anyone loose.