ASA or FLIGHT OPTIONS

[SEFlyer]

I always love the posts where guys ask whether one company or another. This questions will be different for every pilot that is asked, and even some may change their mind every time that you ask them. Only you can make this decision. Research each company (not by listening to the banter of disgruntled employees on this board) -- trust me I'm one of 'em. But research facts and make a decision based on that. You have to live with the decision, we don't.

 

[VABB]

If you had to pick one to work for which one and why???? Pro's and cons from the experts much appreciated!! Thanks!!!!

It depends. Would you rather say "I'd like fries with that" or "would you like fries with that?".

 

[WrknStff]

Don't forget to factor in commuting into the equations. I'm not sure what the current domiciles for ASA are or if I'd want to live there, but unless you want to move to those couple of cities you are going to be commuting to and from work you HAVE to figure in commuting to your answer. When I was still at a 121 regional I had to commute for about 3 years and that totally SUCKED after 9/11 (not that it was didn't suck before then). Now I'm at flops and can choose to fly out of maybe 90% of the cities in the country with airline service (and NO that is not changing with new hires, nasty rumor started by wanna be teamsters as far as I can tell) and there is absolutely no stress about getting to work. Sure as heck beat the stress and frustration of trying to jumpseat to work on your own supposed time off.

 

[73belair]

ASA is hiring fast enough that if you get in the next couple of classes you'll have enough people under you to have a decent schedule in a few months out of training. If you're married to the 7 days off, though, go to Options. There's nothing like that here.

huh? I was hired 2 years ago and am looking to be #350 or so in ATL. They "say" they are going to grow the lines, but I'm betting its back to reserve. No chance I'm betting on ASA getting those 25 airplanes until they are sitting on the ramp. Delta holds ALL the cards at ASA. And more than once in my short 2 years have I been screwed by Delta deciding to do something.

 

[sweptback]

huh? I was hired 2 years ago and am looking to be #350 or so in ATL. They "say" they are going to grow the lines, but I'm betting its back to reserve. No chance I'm betting on ASA getting those 25 airplanes until they are sitting on the ramp. Delta holds ALL the cards at ASA. And more than once in my short 2 years have I been screwed by Delta deciding to do something.

The point I was trying to make is that they continue to hire 20/month with no end in sight, even during all this nightmare that is the closing of DFW. All those newhires are going to ATL, and I'd say probably 90% of the newhires will be going on the 50. Don't you think that if it was to be that bad they would take a few months off until everything catches up? If they knew that they didn't have enough flying and lines to cover everybody in ATL, why hire guys to sit reserve and never fly, yet collect guarantee?

I'm not a koolaid drinker (far from it actually), but I just don't see by looking at the numbers how after the shakeout is complete there's going to be a ton of people on reserve. Say what you will about our management, but I don't see how they could possibly hire 300 people, just to furlough them after the 25 jets mysteriously disappear. At $20k a pop or whatever it costs the company to train a newhire pilot, that's a lot of money to just throw away. If the company had plans to furlough people, they would have done it the day they announced the DFW closing. The fact that they said that no furloughs would take place, and continued to hire like mad says a lot to me. But then again, what do I know, I have no ties to recruiting or training or anybody like that.

They're already growing ATL... there's what, 8 people on reserve there now? People hired just six months ago are holding 4-day lines. Yet, DFW is in a state of flux with tons on reserve. Yes, I know things are going to get ugly come Jan 31, but once it settles down it should be alright, I hope. It sucked for me to go from reserve to holding a line, to reserve again, but when I look at the number of people below me in ATL, I just don't see how I could be anywhere close to reserve. Especially since the same number of airplanes will be flying, just in different locations.

I know ASA was stagnant as all getout from late 2002 to now. I just don't see how that can continue.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Right now this industry is in to much termoil to predict what will happen tomorrow much less in the next few months. Yes, ASA is scheduled to recieve 25 new aircraft next year. If they will be 50's or 70's - who knows. Will we get them at all - who knows.
This all hinges on if DL goes Chap 11 or not.

At this point I would say that the private sector, meaning netjets and flxjet are more stable than 121 ops. Go to netjets and upgrade quicker, build your turbine PIC time. Then if you want to fly the heavy metal, go to UPS or FEDEX.

Just my 2 cents worth...

 

[WrknStff]

I wouldn't expect quicker upgrades at netjets right now. A newhire FO is a long, long way from upgrade at both companies.

 

[Palerider957]

Go to fl ops........no hesitation.

 

[On Your Six]

Would you likely fly a King Air to start at FLOPS? If so, I would think ASA would be a better choice. Better to get jet time and be somewhat comfortable.

Do you know what they will offer you?

 

[SkyWstman]

If you don't currently have the option either way and are just curious in case that option becomes available, you may want to continue to watch what happens. I have heard that ASA could possibly be sold in part or all. That could be good or bad. Take the best offer you have whenever it comes available. If it falls apart on you, get up dust yourself off and say "next".

 

[7KCAB]

Gone for 7 days at a time is tough for alot of people. Lots more collateral work on your part in fractional (catering, cleaning the a/c, dealing with the FBO's) than with the airlines. If you don't mind that or won't consider living in Atlanta (a virtual necessity for ASA), then Fltops is the way.
Unfortunately in this business, you never know, no matter how good it looks - just ask an old ex-Eastern guy. ALWAYS have a plan "B".

 

[WrknStff]

Not likely to get the King Air.

New hires can get any of the small cabins, King Air, CJ or Beechjet. Right off the bat new hires are much more likely to get the beechjet than either of the others, more of those than any other plane in the fleet. There's only around a dozen King airs in the fleet now future is uncertain right now. Everyone seems to love them, crews and owners, but for some reason the management and marketing types don't think it can make money and haven't even been trying to sell the shares. It's a niche market that we are the only big name filling, and if they ran it right most people I know think that they'd make a lot of money with them if they'd only keep the fleet above a critical size so repos wouldn't be killing them. If by some chance you do get the KingAir, you can still upgrade to a small cabin jet as soon as a seat comes free.

The extra duties 7kcab talks about are there, but they really aren't bad. The FBO's usually roll out the red carpet and will take care of vacuuming out the airplane or dealing with the toilets, all it costs you is a tip and all those are reimbursed by the company (even tipping the van driver is encouraged and fully expensed). Even when you do it yourself, you might spend 20 minutes total out of a busy day on housekeeping duties. Since you have at least an hour scheduled between flights, you have plenty of time to get stuff done without busting your butt. All in all it's a relatively laid back job even with the relatively long hours (although the most you'll do in a day is 12 hours first flight to last landing, so 14 hours is the longest). If you fly anywhere near mealtime, you can get crew meals catered, which are usually pretty good to downright awesome, depending on where you go. These meals don't come out of your per diem either. You can go a whole 8 day tour and never pay for a meal out of your pocket if it's a busy tour.

Also hanging out at most of the FBO's we usually go to beats the h3ll out of wasting time in any terminal I ever saw. Very plush crew rooms with hi speed wireless, big screen tv's and extra cushy furniture is pretty normal (not to mention the hot babes so common working the customer service so scenery isn't bad either).

 

[73belair]

Look... There is no growth at ASA beyond the 25 jets that we don't have yet. Upgrades here are about 4-5 years from 2 years ago. If you got hired today I'd bet its more like 5-7 years. (unless majors/llc hire a lot soon). First year sucks! 2nd and beyond is livable, but not what most of us were looking to see in our life times.
Delta is doing who knows what.
ASA isn't a great place to be, but there are worse. We have a better contract than most and its 4 years old.
Long story short. There is little to no movement at ASA. If you don't mind being an FO for a LONG time then welcome.

 

[601Pilot]

ASA or Flight Options

Well, let me put it to you this way. I would trade my 4 years of seniority here
at ASA for any left-seat corporate/charter gig right now if I could!