ASA no RAISE for 4 YEARS

[Dave Benjamin]

I just wishes someone would ask the company to explain how Horizon can pay these rates...yeah they do fly for ALK..and Frontier..so they must be some what competive??????

Hard to make a comparison between ASA and Horizon. ASA was formerly owned by bankrupt DAL and spun off for some survival cash. Horizon is owned by Alaska Air Group which is very profitable right now in spite of their attempts to claim they're struggling. Alaska enjoys a little monoply on flying up north so they have a built in profit center. AS pilots don't have a traditional scope clause in the contract. Another notable difference between Horizon and ASA is Horizon has 100% CRJ-700's. They never made the mistake of buying 50 seaters because scope didn't force them into it. They also have a large number of Q-400's which are amazing money makers. The break even load factor on a Q-400 is ridiculously low. Something else you have to look at with Horizon is upgrade time. DEN has some RJ CA's with less than 10 years seniority but outside of DEN I believe the most junior RJ CA has something like 15 years of service. Even the Dash 8-200 goes pretty senior. I think the most junior 200 CA in PDX has around 7 or 8 years. Someone from QX can correct my estimates but I think they're pretty close.

QX is a quality airline with a great pilot group but noone will dispute the fact that things move very slow at QX compared to other regionals. Another difference is that QX pilots are IBT so they don't have the same union as their mainline counterparts. If J4J (as implemented at Airways and possibly NWA) and other destructive bargaining practices continue I wouldn't be surprised if some ALPA regionals look at IBT as an alternative. Abrogation of seniority should not be allowed or encouraged.

Another factor to consider is that the current White House occupant and his cronies are probably the most anti-labor administration to exist. Congress is controlled by the GOP as well. So right now is a rough time for unions. Management can pretty much do as they please. Look at what happened to the rampers at Alaska. They were simply fired and replaced with Menzies scabs. Same for the NWA mechanics. Those kind of management practices are not as well tolerated by Democrats.

 

[79%N1]

horizon pilots demanded and received these rates. ASA pilots have let 3.5 years go by with no appreciable pressure on the company to negotiate in good faith. Having said that; why should they give you a raise?

Are you freakin crazy?!?!?! What do you know? It shows you are a complete mental midget to make a retarded statement like that! The Company gets away with what the NMB allows them to! ALPA has no control over that. The things that are LEGAL under the Railway Labor Act, ASA has done. What else should the ASA pilots do? Or, should we have just rolled over already like the Mesa pilots, CHQ pilots, and Comair pilots have in the near past? No pressure? You are a complete idiot! If management consitently stalls, comes unprepared, changes their mind, etc....what recourse do ASA pilots have? Answer.....NONE! We are bound by the RLA, and the whims of the mediator. As it stands, the mediator gave a March 3rd deadline, which has come and gone. What decision has he since made on the direction of these negotiations? NONE! So, wise a$$, what should we do?

 

[Socalplt]

Don't forget that Horizon's contract was negoitiated pre 9/11.

ASA isn't the only one with payscales that haven't been adjusted in a while.. SkyWest current scale was originally voted in back during July of 2001 (if I remember correctly). SAPA has given up negoitiating for an increase after the pilots voted down managements offer last year. I personnally doubt there will be a change to our pay for a minimum of several more years.

 

[Sinca3]

79-
I personally think we as ASA pilots could put much more perssure on our mgmnt team.
1) BY THE BOOK.
2) BY THE PROFILES.
3) ONE CALL.
4) IF ITS BROKE WRITE IT UP.
5) NO MORE CELL PHONE USE.
.............................................
The list could go on and on. You and I might be doing these things, but I guarantee that less than 30% of the pilot group is!!
This is the pressure mgmnt feels and our union (like them or not) needs for it to be effective.
I sure wish just one day every single pilot flying that day did it like this, the place would be a freakin´wreck...................

 

[jacksjj]

I should have done someting else with my life.

 

[scarlet]

WE DO NOT NEED TO strike---heck we cannot afford to--but the union needs to ask the mediator for a week of self help from time to time...we need to do stage a day here a day there where 75% of the pilots don't show up for work...this causing havoc to the system and we still have income coming in...

We are double the size of Horizon and bring in so much more money than Horizon, so I don't think asking for thier payscale is to much!!!!

And for this current white house--why would you vote for someone that you KNOW will affect your wallet---?????????????? Wasting our union dues too..

 

[D'Angelo]

Sorry your contract did not EXPIRE 4 years ago it became AMENDABLE. Big difference. It doesn't matter how long it has taken to negotiate. When it becomes AMENDABLE it means you start working on it. There is no set time on how long it should take. All up to the NMB. Oh and BTW NO BACK PAY FOR YOU NEXT!

 

[Phony Marconi]

79-
I personally think we as ASA pilots could put much more perssure on our mgmnt team.
1) BY THE BOOK.
2) BY THE PROFILES.
3) ONE CALL.
4) IF ITS BROKE WRITE IT UP.
5) NO MORE CELL PHONE USE.

EXACTLY!

I been saying this for about 3 years. Maybe finally YOU PEOPLE will lissen, coming from Sinca.

It's so simple.....those 5 things will cost the company more than a $5/hr raise. But we've been picking up their incompetent pieces so long they EXPECT it.

STOP RIGHT NOW!!!!

 

[Rogue5]

It's so simple.....those 5 things will cost the company more than a $5/hr raise.

Devil's advocate here:

What of the argument that by engaging in these activities you will raise your costs even further, thus weakening your position (at least on the spreadsheet paper the bean-counters look at) that a pilot pay-increase is affordable?

What I mean is those measures seem punitive, and if your work situation is so bad that you're trying to "teach them a lesson" by cranking up costs, so be it, but I really don't think anything productive will come of it, i.e. I don't see the accountants sitting around and saying "Geez, look how our cost have gone up. Let's give the pilots $5 an hour and see if the productivity increases."

Once you get in a position that bad, I don't have any idea how you repair the ill-will between pilots and management.

Just throwing it out there...

 

[ohplease!]

EXACTLY!

I been saying this for about 3 years. Maybe finally YOU PEOPLE will lissen, coming from Sinca.

It's so simple.....those 5 things will cost the company more than a $5/hr raise. But we've been picking up their incompetent pieces so long they EXPECT it.

STOP RIGHT NOW!!!!

yep. Sinca3 said it, so we must now do it.:laugh: