ASA newhires getting second year pay.

[skipro101]

Heard from several different people (some newhires at ASA) that ASA is starting newhires at second year pay.

Can anyone confirm this? I thought the union said no increases in pay for any minority pilot group.

 

[Noise]

I have heard nothing of this from either the company or the union, and have a very hard time believing that it is true.

 

[pgcfii2002]

Would be nice, but doubtful.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Doubt it. Alhough 1st year pay needs to be corrected, it needs to be done under a new contract for the whole group. No cheap bandaids that allow the company to drag out negotiations any further.

 

[jstyle13]

this better be FI bull#$%^. As much as I want the new guys to get a pay increase, I don't see how the company could bypass the contract and just start paying 1st year guys 2nd year pay. Get a new freaking contract and then they can raise the 1st year pay up to where it should be.

 

[ILS8L]

I think you heard wrong. Would be a violation of the CBA.

 

[generaltso]

I don't see how the company could bypass the contract

Ask a Chautauqua guy how it can be done.

 

[skipro101]

Yea, I was very skeptical but I heard it from more than one person...so that's why I asked.

Are there any new hire ASA pilots on here than can comment on the validity of this?

 

[RiddleEagle18]

sure would make my choice easy

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Boy how the times have changed. 650 hours TT and he has a "choice".

sure would make my choice easy

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Actually Im already a qualified CRJ f.o.

 

[shamrock]

Boy how the times have changed. 650 hours TT and he has a "choice".

The only choice I had at 650TT was between putting a new student in a 172 or the Warrior.

More power to him though, I would've taken his choice over mine any day.

 

[rightseatjocky]

Not true. The Union would stomp all over that one.

 

[spudskier]

Calling B.S., paycheck is still the same

 

[goahead]

It's second yr CA pay for newhires you're all wrong

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Not true. The Union would stomp all over that one.

If you consider going along with whatever management wants and then filing a grievance "stomping all over that"- then you are right.

 

[kikejavy]

I thought the contract was a minimum the company had to meet. If the company chooses to go above and beyond the contract that is their own business and money. I mean let's face it the grievance would look silly "you cannot pay us more than what we negotiated". I don't think the union can tell the company legally to stop paying newhires second year pay if the company chooses to do so. As long as the company pays the rest of us what has been negotiated from a legal perspective the company is within the law. I mean it sucks for the rest of us that still get the same pay but again the bottom line is the company only has to meet the minimum anything above that is up to them.

 

[~~~^~~~]

If true, that would be funny simply for the fact that it would exceed first year pay at Continental, United, US Air, and Northwest. If a probie pilot got the 700 he would make more than his peers at American and Alaska too.

Somebody remind me again why it is such a good deal for ASA to chase away their experienced crew members?

 

[ohplease!]

the company asked for the ability to start newbies at second year pay.....alpa said "nope"

 

[doh]

the company asked for the ability to start newbies at second year pay.....alpa said "nope"

Not quite true. ALPA says that new hires can have a pay raise equal to 2nd year pay or higher! But it has to be part of a new CBA. IOW, the company can't violate status quo in section 6 any more than ALPA can. The company says they are unwilling to reach a new agreement that is fair, so no pay raise for anyone. That is more like the truth.

 

[sweptback]

the company asked for the ability to start newbies at second year pay.....alpa said "nope"

As a P2P, you really should know the reasoning behind this (and as previously mentioned you have your facts wrong). If you don't, talk to a rep.

 

[GeekMaster]

While I've heard nothing of this rumor, my gut tells me it isn't happening. As for legal implications, forget the grievance process, this one goes straight to the judge for TWO reasons. It's a violation of status quo AND it's self help. See, just because "they" can't live under their own crappy contract doesn't give them the legal right to fix the parts they don't like outside of section 6.

 

[pipejockey]

What a joke!! A company that actually wants to pay its new hires more and their own pilots are against it. I can see alpo being against it...they are the most worthless organization that represents labor that has ever existed. And as far as the pilots, they are just a bunch of big babies crying and whining "I didn't get 2nd year pay so no one else better get it"......PATHETIC!!!!! Grow up and act like adults and be happy to see compensation increase among the peers within your industry no matter how it occurs and quit trying to lower the bar anymore than you have already allowed it to the past 6 years!!

 

[Tarzan]

Somebody remind me again why it is such a good deal for ASA to chase away their experienced crew members?

Because the company feels it is worth the risk to have a three year CA filling the same slot as a twenty year CA. With all of the automation, the belief is that this will save most inexperienced pilots from themselves.

 

[GeekMaster]

Tarzan,

Add to that: The company, over previous years, has regeared it's procedures with dispatch and mtx to the point where they are making many of the decisions that used to be made by the captain and then "presenting them to the captain to verify he/she concurs". In otherwords, they're almost managing the airplane for them.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

What a joke!! A company that actually wants to pay its new hires more and their own pilots are against it. I can see alpo being against it...they are the most worthless organization that represents labor that has ever existed. And as far as the pilots, they are just a bunch of big babies crying and whining "I didn't get 2nd year pay so no one else better get it"......PATHETIC!!!!! Grow up and act like adults and be happy to see compensation increase among the peers within your industry no matter how it occurs and quit trying to lower the bar anymore than you have already allowed it to the past 6 years!!

Apparently you're the only one that doesn't understand the rationale here. Of course ALPA wants to pay the pilots more, especially the first year guys. The key is they want ALL the pilots to get a raise. The company just wants the first year guys to get a raise since they're having trouble filling classes. The company is trying to single out one group of pilots. ALPA said no to the new hire raises specifically because of that. You can't give new hires a raise without giving the rest of the pilots a raise. That's not fair. It also gives ALPA a some negotiating leverage. The company has shown their deck of cards and is starting to get desperate.

 

[ohplease!]

Not quite true. ALPA says that new hires can have a pay raise equal to 2nd year pay or higher! But it has to be part of a new CBA. IOW, the company can't violate status quo in section 6 any more than ALPA can. The company says they are unwilling to reach a new agreement that is fair, so no pay raise for anyone. That is more like the truth.

sorry to oversimplify it for all you nitpickers. But I'll ask you two questions:

1. did the company ask alpa if they could offer second year pay?

2. did alpa say no?


Thats what I thought.....

 

[wms]

What a joke!! A company that actually wants to pay its new hires more and their own pilots are against it. I can see alpo being against it...they are the most worthless organization that represents labor that has ever existed. And as far as the pilots, they are just a bunch of big babies crying and whining "I didn't get 2nd year pay so no one else better get it"......PATHETIC!!!!! Grow up and act like adults and be happy to see compensation increase among the peers within your industry no matter how it occurs and quit trying to lower the bar anymore than you have already allowed it to the past 6 years!!

This would only apply to future new-hires. Future first-year pilots would make more than pilots who are already emloyed but still in their first year. That's fair, not. The company is not trying to improve anything for anyone, they just want bodies in the door. So don't act like anyone is standing in the way of mgmt's compassion, because there is none.

 

[wms]

sorry to oversimplify it for all you nitpickers. But I'll ask you two questions:

1. did the company ask alpa if they could offer second year pay?

2. did alpa say no?


Thats what I thought.....

I don't think it was 2nd year pay. It was just an increase in first year pay. And ALPA did say no.

 

[doh]

sorry to oversimplify it for all you nitpickers. But I'll ask you two questions:

1. did the company ask alpa if they could offer second year pay?

2. did alpa say no?


Thats what I thought.....

ALPA actually said YES! Let's get the contract done and new hires will have 2nd year pay. Management said NO! Got it? I don't think so...