ASA newhires getting second year pay.

[sweptback]

the company asked for the ability to start newbies at second year pay.....alpa said "nope"

As a P2P, you really should know the reasoning behind this (and as previously mentioned you have your facts wrong). If you don't, talk to a rep.

 

[GeekMaster]

While I've heard nothing of this rumor, my gut tells me it isn't happening. As for legal implications, forget the grievance process, this one goes straight to the judge for TWO reasons. It's a violation of status quo AND it's self help. See, just because "they" can't live under their own crappy contract doesn't give them the legal right to fix the parts they don't like outside of section 6.

 

[pipejockey]

What a joke!! A company that actually wants to pay its new hires more and their own pilots are against it. I can see alpo being against it...they are the most worthless organization that represents labor that has ever existed. And as far as the pilots, they are just a bunch of big babies crying and whining "I didn't get 2nd year pay so no one else better get it"......PATHETIC!!!!! Grow up and act like adults and be happy to see compensation increase among the peers within your industry no matter how it occurs and quit trying to lower the bar anymore than you have already allowed it to the past 6 years!!

 

[Tarzan]

Somebody remind me again why it is such a good deal for ASA to chase away their experienced crew members?

Because the company feels it is worth the risk to have a three year CA filling the same slot as a twenty year CA. With all of the automation, the belief is that this will save most inexperienced pilots from themselves.

 

[GeekMaster]

Tarzan,

Add to that: The company, over previous years, has regeared it's procedures with dispatch and mtx to the point where they are making many of the decisions that used to be made by the captain and then "presenting them to the captain to verify he/she concurs". In otherwords, they're almost managing the airplane for them.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

What a joke!! A company that actually wants to pay its new hires more and their own pilots are against it. I can see alpo being against it...they are the most worthless organization that represents labor that has ever existed. And as far as the pilots, they are just a bunch of big babies crying and whining "I didn't get 2nd year pay so no one else better get it"......PATHETIC!!!!! Grow up and act like adults and be happy to see compensation increase among the peers within your industry no matter how it occurs and quit trying to lower the bar anymore than you have already allowed it to the past 6 years!!

Apparently you're the only one that doesn't understand the rationale here. Of course ALPA wants to pay the pilots more, especially the first year guys. The key is they want ALL the pilots to get a raise. The company just wants the first year guys to get a raise since they're having trouble filling classes. The company is trying to single out one group of pilots. ALPA said no to the new hire raises specifically because of that. You can't give new hires a raise without giving the rest of the pilots a raise. That's not fair. It also gives ALPA a some negotiating leverage. The company has shown their deck of cards and is starting to get desperate.

 

[ohplease!]

Not quite true. ALPA says that new hires can have a pay raise equal to 2nd year pay or higher! But it has to be part of a new CBA. IOW, the company can't violate status quo in section 6 any more than ALPA can. The company says they are unwilling to reach a new agreement that is fair, so no pay raise for anyone. That is more like the truth.

sorry to oversimplify it for all you nitpickers. But I'll ask you two questions:

1. did the company ask alpa if they could offer second year pay?

2. did alpa say no?


Thats what I thought.....

 

[wms]

What a joke!! A company that actually wants to pay its new hires more and their own pilots are against it. I can see alpo being against it...they are the most worthless organization that represents labor that has ever existed. And as far as the pilots, they are just a bunch of big babies crying and whining "I didn't get 2nd year pay so no one else better get it"......PATHETIC!!!!! Grow up and act like adults and be happy to see compensation increase among the peers within your industry no matter how it occurs and quit trying to lower the bar anymore than you have already allowed it to the past 6 years!!

This would only apply to future new-hires. Future first-year pilots would make more than pilots who are already emloyed but still in their first year. That's fair, not. The company is not trying to improve anything for anyone, they just want bodies in the door. So don't act like anyone is standing in the way of mgmt's compassion, because there is none.

 

[wms]

sorry to oversimplify it for all you nitpickers. But I'll ask you two questions:

1. did the company ask alpa if they could offer second year pay?

2. did alpa say no?


Thats what I thought.....

I don't think it was 2nd year pay. It was just an increase in first year pay. And ALPA did say no.

 

[doh]

sorry to oversimplify it for all you nitpickers. But I'll ask you two questions:

1. did the company ask alpa if they could offer second year pay?

2. did alpa say no?


Thats what I thought.....

ALPA actually said YES! Let's get the contract done and new hires will have 2nd year pay. Management said NO! Got it? I don't think so...

 

[~~~^~~~]

Because the company feels it is worth the risk to have a three year CA filling the same slot as a twenty year CA. With all of the automation, the belief is that this will save most inexperienced pilots from themselves.

Tarzan, I know you are right, but this is a risky game. Airplanes are not automated appliances.

Automation will not make a good decision when there are braking action reports, a good crosswind and a flights arriving National, Midway, or LaGuardia. Automation will not do anything for you when dealing with a confusing MEL, or dispatch under exemption to some airport with items NOTAM'd inop. The CRJ2 has higher V speeds than anything else at the airport and operates closer to its MGTOW with less power to overcome bad technique.

This is where Delta needs to get involved & maybe even the FAA to set minimum standards. Anyone ever practice approaches and roll outs in low visibility on icy runways in the sim? How about throwing ice on the airplane and making the student go missed. If they are going to try to operate an airline like this, they need to modify training to at least give these pilots a heads up about what real challenges there are out there.

One good thing about the ATR department is they used to use the last couple of sims to try to crash new Capt. upgrades. You got all sorts of training that really did better prepare you for what you might face on a really bad two day over a winter holiday. If you failed to get in and out of half bank iced up in ROA you would either stall, or hit a mountain, just like you would in real life and it was a good lesson. Looking at Reno, could any of us fly those procedures without doing a little study first?

If a Delta Connection carrier balls up another RJ it is going to look like a trend.

 

[buscap]

sorry to oversimplify it for all you nitpickers. But I'll ask you two questions:

1. did the company ask alpa if they could offer second year pay?

2. did alpa say no?


Thats what I thought.....

Oversimplification of a complicated situation completely ignores the context, thus voiding your entire point.

It is not a YES or NO situation and can't be examined with a YES or NO query.

Sorry dude. You are wrong.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Tarzan, I know you are right, but this is a risky game. Airplanes are not automated appliances.

Automation will not make a good decision when there are braking action reports, a good crosswind and a flights arriving National, Midway, or LaGuardia. Automation will not do anything for you when dealing with a confusing MEL, or dispatch under exemption to some airport with items NOTAM'd inop.

An excellent example of this is the Shuttle America incident in CLE last winter on the short runway.

 

[OzBushWhacker]

$$$

If they offered 2nd yr pay i would apply there.....

 

[RiddleEagle18]

If they offered 2nd yr pay i would apply there.....

I would leave my current airline too!

 

[Jetpig]

I would leave my current airline too!Today 16:09
If they offered 2nd yr pay i would apply there.....Today 12:09

Our fight is not for you it is for us! Sorry.

 

[ohplease!]

Oversimplification of a complicated situation completely ignores the context, thus voiding your entire point.

It is not a YES or NO situation and can't be examined with a YES or NO query.

Sorry dude. You are wrong.

here it is straight from the MEC website:

ASA flight operations management today sought relief in the Status Quo of our current contract to give raises to new hire pilots. Management stated they are having difficulty attracting qualified applicants to ASA.
After consultation with the voting members, MEC Chairman Captain David Nieuwenhuis responded to managements request by stating quite simply, “If management wants to attract quality pilots to ASA – settling the remaining open issues of our entire contract will both attract new pilots and stabilize the current pilot groups’ frustrations with management.”

While the MEC is all for working together for win-win situations, we are not interested in carving out special treatment for one segment of the group (new hires) while the remainder of the pilot group have been waiting almost 5 years for pay raises and much needed work rule changes.....

It was relayed to me by a member of the MEC that they were asking to pay second year pay. If that is not the complete TRUTH, take it up with your MEC. I personally have no reason to believe they lied about it.....I also never said I disagreed with it. I don't. It was a simple question and I gave a simple answer.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

There are just so very many ways for us to say this to management: Never; not in a million years; absolutely not; no way, Jose; no chance, Lance; niet; negatory; mm-mm; nuh-uh; oh-oh; and of course my own personal favorite of all time, man falling off of a cliff -- "Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!"

 

[wickedpilot]

Heard from several different people (some newhires at ASA) that ASA is starting newhires at second year pay.

Can anyone confirm this? I thought the union said no increases in pay for any minority pilot group.

It's all true. Plus, the new hires don't have to pay for FLiCA either. And they get to park in "the old Lot 3."

 

[www.]

Heard from several different people (some newhires at ASA) that ASA is starting newhires at second year pay.

Can anyone confirm this? I thought the union said no increases in pay for any minority pilot group.

During Section 6 no change to pay or work rules.