Palerider957
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ASA negotiations
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"GO AROUND"
Again?!?!?
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2005
- Posts
- 949
Yeah, SKW is making improvements, like promoting a tool like Terry Hayes? Keeping Willy around? Gary Gross and the other pilot haters we have at the GO? They are a big help to promoting the team at ASA. I used to be an optimist but the company squashed that and I am waiting for SKW to turn me back around.
Still waiting.
Still waiting.
Tomct
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2004
- Posts
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ASAdrvr...I agree, there have been some improvements, BUT they are missing a BIG ONE!! Showing like they GIVE a CRAP about the pilots. Not seeing it! I will be the first to admit it when I see it, as of now, like go around said...STILL WAINTING.....120...my check what? No, SLC has been great! But the negotiating has been the pitts. I know that the MEC is working hard, but the company is dragging their little feet knowing how much money we as a pilot group are losing! I can't believe that does not PISS you off! I did not take the upgrade as quick as I could have...liked my schedule. Getting screwed around by scheduling has not bothered you? Having your existing contract re-interpreted does not bother you...Come on man, you have got to be kidding me! But this is my second airline...seeing the same crap! Gets a bit frustrating and you better believe I am getting ready to hit the road! I never said that it was the worst job... I love my job, but when a company can take that joy AWAY, Houston, we have a problem!
I think more people are pissed off than show it! They are possibly the type to sit back and watch the fireworks. I will gladly be the one lauching the rockets when I know that "WE" are being dealt a BS deal. It is almost time to blink or show your cards. My cards are all out on the table and I don't think I am BLINKING!!
FmrFreightDog
Py-lote
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wms
billSquared
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Skywest has made some mgmt changes etc, but we haven't felt the effects of any changes or improvements. Word is that big changes are coming to scheduling, which if the plan is to make our scheduling similar to SKW, big changes is an understatement. But we probably won't see them until the contract is done.
In the meantime it's been business as usual for ALL frontline employees, including us. Life at ASA stinks and is going to until the changes become more operational.
In the meantime it's been business as usual for ALL frontline employees, including us. Life at ASA stinks and is going to until the changes become more operational.
goodto50meters
DOLE, I NEED A BLUE PILL!
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From Wednesday, says it all!
YES to STRIKE!
YES my MEC Speaks for ME!
======================================================
The Connection Special
11 January, 2006 edition
The Connection is e-mailed to you periodically by the ASA ALPA MEC and Communications Committee to share news of our union's activities and accomplishments.
1. CNC Update for Wednesday, 11 January 2006
2. In the Meantime.
3. Graphics Tell the Tale
1. CNC Update - Charleston, SC - Our CNC team is meeting with management today, and the two sides have agreed to continue work on two key sections of the contract: Section 12 - Hours of Service and Section 13 -Scheduling.
You'll recall management earlier presented their "comprehensive" package for all sections of the contract not currently subject to Tentative Agreement (T/A). Negotiations Committee members said the details of that document remain to be fleshed out and part of that process is the continued work on sections 12 and 13. The wording in those two sections alone represents more than a year's worth of negotiated language. Union leaders say too much time has been invested in the wording of those sections to continue any further in these contract talks without finishing what was started there. "Our pilots have made it very clear they want major improvements in scheduling, and that's what our Section Thirteen proposal attempts to address," said ASA MEC Chairman Bob Arnold.
Contract Negotiating Committee Chairman John Rice said his team is expected to continue negotiating Sections 12 and 13 throughout the rest of today's session. Another briefing is expected later this evening.
2. In the meantime.
By now, you've read or heard about management's spin on our last negotiating session. Tiresome as it is to respond to such drivel, we wanted to keep you informed as to the "real" story.
During a meeting with management on November 18, 2005, ALPA's Economic and Financial (E&FA) analyst, who was present along with John Rice and ALPA attorney Terry Saturday, requested information in the form of ten specific bullet points. That information was requested for use in making adjustments to ALPA's economic model, and the company financial representative present indicated the data would be provided.
As of December 6, after checking with ALPA E&FA, there was no economic data delivered or sent. CNC Chairman John Rice sent a letter to management that day requesting the same ten bullet point items so that we would have the data by our next scheduled meeting date on December 28. By December 16, after numerous attempts to contact management and checking several times with ALPA E&FA, again, no economic data was delivered or sent. On that date, John Rice again sent another letter (certified) - in fact a duplicate of the first - to ASA management requesting the same ten items, emphasizing that we would need this for our rapidly approaching meeting date of December 28. This time Rice copied Charlie Tutt and Bryan LaBrecque. Finally, on December 22, ASA management sent the economic data we originally requested over a month earlier - two days before the Christmas break and less than a week before our scheduled negotiation session. Naturally our E&FA folks did not have time to review and incorporate the data before our December 28 negotiation session. Therefore our E&FA analyst stayed in Herndon working on the model.
In concert with management's inability to communicate with us, they elected to bring their financial folks to the December 28 session. We had no indication they would be doing so, because ASA management's negotiating team policy is to ignore most ALPA correspondence, and most certainly not to initiate their own. So naturally they were surprised when just our CNC showed up on December 28 - or at least that's what they said. Our E&FA analysts were busy working on the economic data we finally received from management at the eleventh hour, just before negotiations were to resume.
The Negotiations Update published by management also offers some sketchy explanation about ALPA's lack of response to their request that we dive to the bottom of the industry in pay and benefits just to attract "growth". We responded all right, but it wasn't what they wanted to hear, so it was characterized as a lack of response on ALPA's part. Quite frankly, as ASA pilots, we don't buy aircraft or select what routes management puts those aircraft on. That's management's job - our job is to fly the equipment we operate over the routes we're given (See Section 1.G. of the Collective Bargaining Agreement). So it should have come as no surprise to management that we only indicated we were aware of the lousy deal they signed and we could only suggest alternatives to lowering their costs - just not on the backs of the pilots. And since management reads everything we publish, maybe now they'll get it. Just in case they haven't gotten it yet, let's spell it out one more time:
We will not participate in a race to the bottom to sanction growth, pay, benefits, or even the promise of future employment!
We are confident that SkyWest management has not squandered huge sums of money on the purchase of ASA, only to let ASA management scuttle any hope of profitability or growth.
And while we're at it, keep in mind the details of management's most recent "roadmap to success." As presented, their proposal means no pay raise, a pay reduction for CR7 pilots on the average of 8%, and no cost of living increases for the life of the contract - which is proposed at 5 years. Additionally, for CR7 crews, the added bonus of being required to maintain qualification in both the CR7 and the CR2. What a deal! So line that up with your last pay raise, which might have been in September 2002. Keep in mind the added operational mandates management has required of you since then, such as CAT II qualification, along with security hassles, scheduling nightmares, dynamic reinterpretation of your contract and a nagging sense of job insecurity, and you should have a pretty clear view of how this management team, with its guiding law firm of Ford and Harrison view your role as a "teammate."
We could highlight the other sections of managements "opener", but we think you get the picture.
Stand up for what you deserve, don't settle for less, and don't buy into management "pay to play" scheme. It will only work if we allow it.
3. Graphics tell the tale
The authors of management's Negotiations Update were quite creative when generating the proposed pay rate graphic that accompanied their publication. According to their estimates, our proposed compensation is highly out of line with that of other, similar carriers. We've attached our own series of graphs (you'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader software to read them) - not quite as artistic, but far more representative of the truth - that map out our current pay rates and compare them to current rates at other DCI carriers. The graphs show at a glance that our current rates of compensation hover at near the bottom of the industry tier on the CR-200, and are in line with the DCI average on the CR-700. Additionally, we show where our pay rates for each piece of equipment would be today if we were merely receiving an annual Cost of Living Allowance (COLA) raise of three percent, which we've not received since before 2002.
For additional information about the ASA pilot group and ALPA, please sign on to the ALPA Intranet at https://crewroom.alpa.org/asa. Also call 800 MEC-ATIS for our routinely-updated message.
Please remember to contact ALPA when changing your Internet service provider or e-mail address so that we can continue to reach you.
To update any of your contact information, go to the ALPA website at crewroom.alpa.org and sign into the Members Only section. At the top of that screen click, EDIT YOUR PREFERENCES. From there, you will be instructed on how to make the necessary changes.
# # #
If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, please update your mailing preferences on the ALPA.org website at https://crewroom.alpa.org/alpa/DesktopModules/ToPreferences.aspx
Scroll through the preferences page and select the options you want ALPA to use for future correspondence. You may be prompted to logon using your member number and password to access this page.
YES to STRIKE!
YES my MEC Speaks for ME!
======================================================
The Connection Special
11 January, 2006 edition
The Connection is e-mailed to you periodically by the ASA ALPA MEC and Communications Committee to share news of our union's activities and accomplishments.
1. CNC Update for Wednesday, 11 January 2006
2. In the Meantime.
3. Graphics Tell the Tale
1. CNC Update - Charleston, SC - Our CNC team is meeting with management today, and the two sides have agreed to continue work on two key sections of the contract: Section 12 - Hours of Service and Section 13 -Scheduling.
You'll recall management earlier presented their "comprehensive" package for all sections of the contract not currently subject to Tentative Agreement (T/A). Negotiations Committee members said the details of that document remain to be fleshed out and part of that process is the continued work on sections 12 and 13. The wording in those two sections alone represents more than a year's worth of negotiated language. Union leaders say too much time has been invested in the wording of those sections to continue any further in these contract talks without finishing what was started there. "Our pilots have made it very clear they want major improvements in scheduling, and that's what our Section Thirteen proposal attempts to address," said ASA MEC Chairman Bob Arnold.
Contract Negotiating Committee Chairman John Rice said his team is expected to continue negotiating Sections 12 and 13 throughout the rest of today's session. Another briefing is expected later this evening.
2. In the meantime.
By now, you've read or heard about management's spin on our last negotiating session. Tiresome as it is to respond to such drivel, we wanted to keep you informed as to the "real" story.
During a meeting with management on November 18, 2005, ALPA's Economic and Financial (E&FA) analyst, who was present along with John Rice and ALPA attorney Terry Saturday, requested information in the form of ten specific bullet points. That information was requested for use in making adjustments to ALPA's economic model, and the company financial representative present indicated the data would be provided.
As of December 6, after checking with ALPA E&FA, there was no economic data delivered or sent. CNC Chairman John Rice sent a letter to management that day requesting the same ten bullet point items so that we would have the data by our next scheduled meeting date on December 28. By December 16, after numerous attempts to contact management and checking several times with ALPA E&FA, again, no economic data was delivered or sent. On that date, John Rice again sent another letter (certified) - in fact a duplicate of the first - to ASA management requesting the same ten items, emphasizing that we would need this for our rapidly approaching meeting date of December 28. This time Rice copied Charlie Tutt and Bryan LaBrecque. Finally, on December 22, ASA management sent the economic data we originally requested over a month earlier - two days before the Christmas break and less than a week before our scheduled negotiation session. Naturally our E&FA folks did not have time to review and incorporate the data before our December 28 negotiation session. Therefore our E&FA analyst stayed in Herndon working on the model.
In concert with management's inability to communicate with us, they elected to bring their financial folks to the December 28 session. We had no indication they would be doing so, because ASA management's negotiating team policy is to ignore most ALPA correspondence, and most certainly not to initiate their own. So naturally they were surprised when just our CNC showed up on December 28 - or at least that's what they said. Our E&FA analysts were busy working on the economic data we finally received from management at the eleventh hour, just before negotiations were to resume.
The Negotiations Update published by management also offers some sketchy explanation about ALPA's lack of response to their request that we dive to the bottom of the industry in pay and benefits just to attract "growth". We responded all right, but it wasn't what they wanted to hear, so it was characterized as a lack of response on ALPA's part. Quite frankly, as ASA pilots, we don't buy aircraft or select what routes management puts those aircraft on. That's management's job - our job is to fly the equipment we operate over the routes we're given (See Section 1.G. of the Collective Bargaining Agreement). So it should have come as no surprise to management that we only indicated we were aware of the lousy deal they signed and we could only suggest alternatives to lowering their costs - just not on the backs of the pilots. And since management reads everything we publish, maybe now they'll get it. Just in case they haven't gotten it yet, let's spell it out one more time:
We will not participate in a race to the bottom to sanction growth, pay, benefits, or even the promise of future employment!
We are confident that SkyWest management has not squandered huge sums of money on the purchase of ASA, only to let ASA management scuttle any hope of profitability or growth.
And while we're at it, keep in mind the details of management's most recent "roadmap to success." As presented, their proposal means no pay raise, a pay reduction for CR7 pilots on the average of 8%, and no cost of living increases for the life of the contract - which is proposed at 5 years. Additionally, for CR7 crews, the added bonus of being required to maintain qualification in both the CR7 and the CR2. What a deal! So line that up with your last pay raise, which might have been in September 2002. Keep in mind the added operational mandates management has required of you since then, such as CAT II qualification, along with security hassles, scheduling nightmares, dynamic reinterpretation of your contract and a nagging sense of job insecurity, and you should have a pretty clear view of how this management team, with its guiding law firm of Ford and Harrison view your role as a "teammate."
We could highlight the other sections of managements "opener", but we think you get the picture.
Stand up for what you deserve, don't settle for less, and don't buy into management "pay to play" scheme. It will only work if we allow it.
3. Graphics tell the tale
The authors of management's Negotiations Update were quite creative when generating the proposed pay rate graphic that accompanied their publication. According to their estimates, our proposed compensation is highly out of line with that of other, similar carriers. We've attached our own series of graphs (you'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader software to read them) - not quite as artistic, but far more representative of the truth - that map out our current pay rates and compare them to current rates at other DCI carriers. The graphs show at a glance that our current rates of compensation hover at near the bottom of the industry tier on the CR-200, and are in line with the DCI average on the CR-700. Additionally, we show where our pay rates for each piece of equipment would be today if we were merely receiving an annual Cost of Living Allowance (COLA) raise of three percent, which we've not received since before 2002.
For additional information about the ASA pilot group and ALPA, please sign on to the ALPA Intranet at https://crewroom.alpa.org/asa. Also call 800 MEC-ATIS for our routinely-updated message.
Please remember to contact ALPA when changing your Internet service provider or e-mail address so that we can continue to reach you.
To update any of your contact information, go to the ALPA website at crewroom.alpa.org and sign into the Members Only section. At the top of that screen click, EDIT YOUR PREFERENCES. From there, you will be instructed on how to make the necessary changes.
# # #
If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, please update your mailing preferences on the ALPA.org website at https://crewroom.alpa.org/alpa/DesktopModules/ToPreferences.aspx
Scroll through the preferences page and select the options you want ALPA to use for future correspondence. You may be prompted to logon using your member number and password to access this page.
atlcrjdriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Posts
- 2,266
From the latest MEC update, it appears that they are making progress at the table. It may be slow but at least things are moving again.
LET THE MEC DO THERE JOBS...
Yes, my MEC speaks for me and if the time comes and they call for a strike vote I will vote yes to support the MEC. As far as closing this place down and actually walking the pavement, that is a whole other story. For every one ramper and gate agent that doesn't care and could care less about doing there job there are two that perform very well and need this pay check. However they are the silent majority being overshadowed by the loud few that screw everyone.
Fly Safe, Do Your Job and Go Home...
LET THE MEC DO THERE JOBS...
Yes, my MEC speaks for me and if the time comes and they call for a strike vote I will vote yes to support the MEC. As far as closing this place down and actually walking the pavement, that is a whole other story. For every one ramper and gate agent that doesn't care and could care less about doing there job there are two that perform very well and need this pay check. However they are the silent majority being overshadowed by the loud few that screw everyone.
Fly Safe, Do Your Job and Go Home...
When I hear my union speaks for me, it makes me wonder what people think of that. I am part of the union, I pay my 2.1%, I am in good standing, and have been a MEC member in a previous company. I will not watch an MEC take a position that does not represent membership. They are elected officials representing the pilot group. No hidden agendas, they are us. If we strike it means the majority of the voting pilots wanted a strike. Not because the MEC wants it. If we say no, then no strike.
You have to keep an MEC responsible to membership. Just as the MEC keeps management responsible to the contract.
You have to keep an MEC responsible to membership. Just as the MEC keeps management responsible to the contract.
Last edited:
atrdriver
Living in Paradise
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2004
- Posts
- 9,271
atrdriver
Living in Paradise
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2004
- Posts
- 9,271
ASADFW7 said:
Which is why they have been taking the polls with the Wilson Center on a regular basis. And why they have been hanging out in the crew lounges. If you don't think that they are doing the correct things then you need to go to a meeting and let them know. But personally I think that for the most part they are doing the will of the majority. They have my support.
"GO AROUND"
Again?!?!?
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2005
- Posts
- 949
flylowman
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2004
- Posts
- 149
Do all of you know that a strike vote doesn't mean we will strike. What is does show is unity. That is what we need to show management. Support the union negotiators. They are working for us. For the guys who don't vote yes, you are showing the "man" that you will that his crap. Stand up you owe it to yourself. We are Professionals.
Stifler's Mom
MILF...MILF...MILF
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2003
- Posts
- 5,123
Avoiceofreason
Just exactly which airline do you work for?
I've come across two threads, each of which you claim to be a pilot of a particular company, ASA and XJ.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=70296
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=866022#post866022
Just exactly which airline do you work for?
I've come across two threads, each of which you claim to be a pilot of a particular company, ASA and XJ.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=70296
AVoiceOfReason said:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=866022#post866022
AVoiceOfReason said:
Last edited:
DrunkIrishman
Cocaine is a helluva drug
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2002
- Posts
- 519
ASADFW-
Your concern is not founded on fact. "My MEC speaks for me, and I tell them what to say," is the completed phrase. Nobody is speaking for you without your input through Wilson Polling like ATR stated. Relax and support your negotiators. They have been in the crew lounge a lot lately ( I know because of all my 3+ hour breaks) so go and tell them your concerns.
Your concern is not founded on fact. "My MEC speaks for me, and I tell them what to say," is the completed phrase. Nobody is speaking for you without your input through Wilson Polling like ATR stated. Relax and support your negotiators. They have been in the crew lounge a lot lately ( I know because of all my 3+ hour breaks) so go and tell them your concerns.
AVoiceOfReason
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Posts
- 138
Stifler's Mom said:
Sorry to burst your conspiracy theory Stifler, but I work for ASA. I just don't understand regional pilots who want the 70 seaters to go to the mainline and then want to "flow up" to those airplanes at less pay. The mainline pilots are agreeing to fly them for LESS than we are and we would have to give up our seniority and longevity to fly them at the mainline. Sorry, but it makes no sense to me. The term "here" refers to the "regionals". Nice try.
Stifler's Mom
MILF...MILF...MILF
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2003
- Posts
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AVoiceOfReason
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Posts
- 138
Stifler's Mom said:
I have heard several here say that they want the 70 seaters to go to mainline, just like some of the Mesaba and Pinnacle guys have said. That is what that whole Mesaba/Pinnacle/NWA thread was about that you supposedly "caught" me being "management". I am really growing tired of the "you must be management if you disagree with ALPA" routine.
Stifler's Mom
MILF...MILF...MILF
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2003
- Posts
- 5,123
This is supposedly a thread about ASA Negotiations, and I have never heard an ASA pilot on here or the ALPA boards ever say they want to give the 70-seaters to mainline to fly. Maybe I missed a thread around here recently?
If you say you are an ASA pilot than I will take your word for it. Your post on the NWA thread made me wonder. As far as disagreeing with ALPA, I have no problem with that stance. Nothing wrong with questioning authority.
Hope you enjoyed your vacation.
If you say you are an ASA pilot than I will take your word for it. Your post on the NWA thread made me wonder. As far as disagreeing with ALPA, I have no problem with that stance. Nothing wrong with questioning authority.
Hope you enjoyed your vacation.
AVoiceOfReason
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Posts
- 138
Stifler's Mom said:
Yes I did - it was hard to return. I should have been more clear, but I am tired of regional guys saying the 70 seater should go to mainline. The arguement goes something like, "it will be a better job if it goes to mainline, so I would rather fly it at mainline". The problem with that thinking is that the mainline guys are undercutting us to fly the 70 seater, and we would have to start all over at the bottom to fly them as FOs and without our longevity. Sorry, but with my longevity that isn't an option. I would just rather keep those jobs here at the regional level - ASA to be more specific. Sorry if I confused you.
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