ASA Negotiations Suspended Indefinitely

[FDJ2]

After the arbitrary size is established, the one "owning" the scope raises a wall around what they haven't sold to subsidize their payrates, workrules, and retirement. ..

So a pilot group can "own" the code. Thanks again for the clarification.

Before the buyout, didn't the CMR pilots have firm orders for 90 CRJ700s? DCI can operate 200 of those size aircraft. What's to prevent them from executing all those orders and then some? Oh, that's right, as you have already stated, they are non competitive in that market.

Please define "inclusive scope" and how it prevents outsourcing? Who is "included" and who is "excluded"?

 

[JoeMerchant]

So a pilot group can "own" the code. Thanks again for the clarification.

According to ALPA, you own the DAL code. I don't agree with ALPA.

Before the buyout, didn't the CMR pilots have firm orders for 90 CRJ700s? DCI can operate 200 of those size aircraft. What's to prevent them from executing all those orders and then some? Oh, that's right, as you have already stated, they are non competitive in that market.

That's right, they are not competitive and neither were the Delta pilots. Thus the cuts.

Please define "inclusive scope" and how it prevents outsourcing? Who is "included" and who is "excluded"?

Well to answer that question, you need to go back to Randy Babbitt and Eastern. They were the first group to allow the outsourcing in the first place. In hindsight, they shouldn't have and he admits it. They should have agreed to whatever concessions were necessary to allow Eastern to fly Metros and Beech 99s to MCN, CSG and other small cities. Ego prevented this and the camel stuck his nose in the tent. Fast forward to today, and "inclusive scope" includes anyone the "owner" of the code wants. Those you "include" will help you pull on the same side of the rope. Those you "exclude" will pull on the opposite side of the rope. Currently I am pulling on the other side of the rope. If you want me on your side, let me know.

 

[FDJ2]

Those you "include" will help you pull on the same side of the rope.

So the CMR pilots are pulling on the same side of the rope as the ASA pilots, how's that working out?

Please give me precise scope language that is "inclusive" and would prevent whipsawing, but remember, according to the RJDC, no pilot group can control an airlines code, so this language can not limit an airlines ability to outsource the flying to the free market.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Our MEC asked to bind Delta in scope negotiations, ALPA not only said no - they said hell no then called in threats to take the MEC into recievership. Here are the letters with ALPA's President's signature.

http://www.rjdefense.com/alpaletters.pdf

Yes, ALPA was saying that each MEC shall negotiate with its respective company management. That is precisely why we knew at XJT that we had no chance at tying CAL to the XJT contract.

ALPA does endorse alter ego bargaining. How can you possibly say that ALPA doesn't endorse alter ego competitors when Compass and Mid Atlantic and a small host of other alter egos were created as a result of mainline scope that sought to place airplanes outside of mainline, but to be flown by mainline pilots at cut rate prices. Further, when mainline pilots seek a "bargaining credit" for outsourcing flying, clearly they seek to recieve some benefit by selling their scope and the "credit" can only come from money saved by paying sub standard wages at the small jet providers. And in fact, every one of these agreements was endorsed by ALPA's President, Duane Woerth.

I don't necessarily endorse Compass or MA but I don't believe that they are "alter ego" carriers in the true sense of the word. New York Air was an alter ego as was Freedom Air. Neither MA nor Compass comes close to the threats that those two companies were in my opinion. But again, I don't like the idea of either Compass or MA.

And I can not believe that any one is defending McKinsey - especially a person who supports labor. "Mark to Market" was a McKinsey idea that Jeff Skiiling brought with him to Enron. Leo Mullins was another McKinsey puke and in the book "An Airline without a Captain" the blame for Delta's implosion was placed pretty squarely at the consultants who's make work projects not only wasted huge amounts of company resources, they also lowered productivity from the employees that were left after they cut, slashed and burned through labor.

Fins, perhaps you should reread my post up top about McKinsey. I didn't defend them but rather - I explained that from management's stand point they do their job well. Why? Because they do. Are they labor's friend? Probably not. They are their to streamline a company's business and lower its costs and make it a more healthy and viable competitor...sometimes that goes counter to labor's goals.

Stop listening to rhetoric and look what ALPA does. Actions speak....

Easy there Fins. I listen to NO rhetoric. I form my own opinions based on my own experiences and analysis. Just because we disagree doesn't mean you are right and I am wrong or vice versa.

-Neal

 

[D'Angelo]

Basically ALPO is just a big buisness. Nothing but worthless POS pricks who fill your head with fear, anger and lies

 

[atrdriver]

Basically ALPO is just a big buisness. Nothing but worthless POS pricks who fill your head with fear, anger and lies

Why don't you have "fear, anger and lies" tattooed on your forehead. Then when you look in the mirror you can be reminded of who is really trying to spread the lies.

 

[Tomct]

Cfit, I am glad to see that you are happy regarding so many unfortunate things (screwed) thrust upon our pilot group. Just remember one thing, "what comes around, goes around." And atleast we HAVE a say in what WE do, not just a bunch of puppets. Although, I don't classify you with the majority of your pilot group, most of them are outstanding....YOU are among the minority! Dck Head!

 

[twott driver]

This message is hidden because D'Angelo is on your ignore list.</SPAN>


Hey! This IS a pretty cool feature!

 

[79%N1]

This message is hidden because D'Angelo is on your ignore list.</SPAN>

Yep!!

 

[ASADriver]

Cfit, I am glad to see that you are happy regarding so many unfortunate things (screwed) thrust upon our pilot group. Just remember one thing, "what comes around, goes around." And atleast we HAVE a say in what WE do, not just a bunch of puppets. Although, I don't classify you with the majority of your pilot group, most of them are outstanding....YOU are among the minority! Dck Head!

We have a say? What say do any of us have anymore. Seems to me the union pilots are taking more cuts than the SKYW guys. Yes you get to vote, but everyone is voting to save their job rather than stop the slide - not really much of a choice.