ASA Negotiations Play-by-Play

[pa31350pilot]

I personally think the cost box stuff is garbage. We (or I should say some) as a profession allowed this to become a factor. One thing that I believe many people forget is that we are professionals....just the same as a doctor, lawyer, etc etc. But yet we are treated like cheap labor. I hope for the best for all the ASA group and the industry as a whole. I also agree that there are a lot of 400 hour zero to hero pilots out there that are willing to work for nothing. Like someone said above, they need to stop hiring these folks (nothing personal...I know some good low time pilots) and then I think you will see a significant increase in they quality of candidates that apply for these jobs, and with that will come better work conditions, since these people won't sell themselves short just to fly a jet. As for my story, I have been with ASA going on 5 months now, and although I love the people I work with, I had to come to the tough decision to leave. I simply could not afford to work there anymore. I don't live very fancy either, but I refuse to live like a bum just to have this job. I was excited to be recently hired on at express jet, which will put me close to home and give me a better quality of life.......but then I heard the news today about their plight too. So who knows what happens next. Good luck to all.

 

[blueridge71]

Pa31350pilot is one of many FOs that I know of who left within the first year after the company spent $25-30K to train them. When will the mis-management realize that treating employees like crap is costing them loads of money?

I know captains who have already figured out how many extra minutes of block that they will have to fly in order to make up a pay cut of x%.

Employees can make or break a company. Do a cost analysis on that.

It occurs to me that what we may be witnessing is not simple mismanagement, but an Atkin directed attempt to bust the union.

 

["GO AROUND"]

Oh Please, do you really think that managment wants anything to come out of the negotiations that would show them in a bad way? They would scream bloody murder if a transcript was published and then say it was false. Then they couldn't tell us that it is the unions fault for proposing all the costly changes and dragging this out even further. We havn't even gotten to the parts that have the significant money associated with them and the company won't even put any proposals on the table. They just want to keep with the, "we want to give you a contract but the union won't let us crap".

Sure there would be some cost increases to QOL improvements but they should easily be offset by increases in efficiency and productivity. They just don't want to give up the amount of control and flexibility they have to fix the F*ck ups that the people working under them cause everyday.

I know we aren't asking for the moon and stars in our proposals cause I've talked to the CNC and MEC about what we are proposing. Why would any of us want to cost ourselves out of the picture these days. But rolling over and taking where the company is setting the bar is not gonna happen cause they are setting it as low as possible.

From my research we are within a percent or two of industry average in pilot costs, usually lower. So, are all these other carriers gonna lower their costs as well? I don't have a clue where BL is getting that we are so far above the average unless he is using the lowest two to average. It's a complete snow job and it's insulting they would think we would believe that the agreement they showed the CNC and MEC was accurate and not adjusted to their benifit. What benifit would it be to them to give us the actual numbers from the agreement with Delta? None.

I know you will say I am drunk on the union kool aid but I am far from a die hard union fanatic. I support our union and have absolute distrust in our managment.

 

[ohplease!]

I don't think EITHER side wants the truth coming out of that room. Not yet anyway. The lawyers are making their money, the company is saving its money (sort of) and their ALL having good times in nice places spending my (our) money and I'm sure eating REALLY nice breakfast, lunch and dinner!

I don't think you're drunk on anything. You have your opinion and I have mine. I don't believe everything that ANYONE tells me. They all have their own agendas and I'm not sure they have my best interests at heart. Maybe they shouldn't. I don't know. What I do know is I'm tired of the rhetoric. From BOTH SIDES. Just like tonights phone msg. with all the little tag lines like "race to the bottom". I expect that type of statement on here but, not from my union "leaders" who sit at the table negotiating my future. I expect them to be more professional than that.

I, simply, would like to see the transcripts of those meetings to see what REALLY is happening. Or not.

 

[goodto50meters]

I don't think EITHER side wants the truth coming out of that room. Not yet anyway. The lawyers are making their money, the company is saving its money (sort of) and their ALL having good times in nice places spending my (our) money and I'm sure eating REALLY nice breakfast, lunch and dinner!

I don't think you're drunk on anything. You have your opinion and I have mine. I don't believe everything that ANYONE tells me. They all have their own agendas and I'm not sure they have my best interests at heart. Maybe they shouldn't. I don't know. What I do know is I'm tired of the rhetoric. From BOTH SIDES. Just like tonights phone msg. with all the little tag lines like "race to the bottom". I expect that type of statement on here but, not from my union "leaders" who sit at the table negotiating my future. I expect them to be more professional than that.

I, simply, would like to see the transcripts of those meetings to see what REALLY is happening. Or not.

You dont like accurate tag lines like 'race to the bottom' from your leaders?
Well what the fuc& would you like them to call it smart guy!!??

I know, lets try the following to satisfy your fetish for 'professionalisim': Instead of 'Race to the bottom' they should now say "Extremely Rapid Escapade Designed to Transfer Career Conditions and Currency From Pilots to Management". Would this version be better?

Nah, I like 'race to the bottom' better. Its direct and to the point and is the absolute truth of the matter.

BTW, transcripts are not allowed by the NMB, you will have to decide who you trust.

I support and trust my MEC
I will Vote YES to strike

 

[701EV]

Quote From Brian LaBrecue,(LIAR)

"First, lets address the obvious. These contract negotiations have gone on far too long." YEAH RIGHT!

So Brian has just showed all of the ASA pilots how he wants to get this contract done. He just SLAPPED every ASA pilot in the face!

Brian is a LIAR! He is not going to pull off what he told JA he could pull off.

If we worked for Free, in the last two years of the Delta contract we would have to be the lowest DCI carrier. So I guess we would then have to pay Brian to fly our airplanes to keep the DCI contract.

Hey Brian GO PACK SAND! The ASA pilots are not buying what you're selling.

I support the CNC!

I support the MEC!

STRIKE VOTE YES!

701EV

 

[atlcrashpad]

Cannot wait until I get the update this afternoon or evening from the MEC. Curious as to what the Company is going to say.

 

[scarlet]

HOrizon Pay rates here they are and they are making money at flying what 50 airplanes up and down west coast...and they love their company...is Alsaka shopping around NO CRJ-700 because the 50's are not going to be around that much longer so we need to look at 70's 4 year f.o. pays 44.00/hr. so we ar behind by about 4-5.00/hr...captain 4 year 76.15 behind here too by 5-6.00/hour year 15 captain 108.20 again behind 5.00-6.00 perdiem 1.70 domestic and 2.10 intl---- I have the lastes Air inc book on salary survey and will print some out and leave in crew room... CO express AM Eagle Mesa Horizon and S**tqua

 

["GO AROUND"]

Oh please, I still don't know what agenda or benifits the CNC or MEC have to dragging this out. We're the only side that has put every section proposal on the table. The company is back to saying what they want and no idea how to get it. Would you enlighten us?

 

[AV8700]

Does anyone have any info on this mornings session?

 

[wms]

nevermind

 

[atlcrashpad]

There should be an update later this afternoon.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Go PUCK yourself ASA Management!!!

SOS different month

 

[atlcrashpad]

Latest update: Mis Management failed to provide the written proposal to the Union. Typical MGT BS, "Just wait, we'll put it in writting tomorrow". Well, tomorrow never comes.

 

[atrdriver]

Yeah, as of 3pm managements negotiators had not yet appeared in the room. But remember, they REALLY want to get this done.

 

[Plug]

As of right now the CNC is currently waiting for managements proposal. Sadly it'll look more like the opener they should've presented 3 1/2 years ago. But it's movement nonetheless. It looks like they will go late in the night.

Ohplease,

Your comments about our negotiators, and the company's for that matter shows your ignorance. If you think they are hanging out at the pool sipping umbrella drinks, well I think I saw black helicopters circling your house today. There is a big conspiracy, blah, blah......

Thank you for your screen name because it reminds me what to say to myself after reading your posts.

 

[Tomct]

:uzi:Once again, mgmnt is showing how LITTLE respect they have for us. I am sick and tired of it!! Give me the STRIKE VOTE BABY! It is TIME to send a message to SGU!! AAAAHHHH hello, Jerry, YOU are about to have 160 airplanes PARKED unless you get off your ASS and SAVE these negotiations!!
Stike Vote Now!

 

[Halo_RJdriver]

:uzi:Once again, mgmnt is showing how LITTLE respect they have for us. I am sick and tired of it!! Give me the STRIKE VOTE BABY! It is TIME to send a message to SGU!! AAAAHHHH hello, Jerry, YOU are about to have 160 airplanes PARKED unless you get off your ASS and SAVE these negotiations!!
Stike Vote Now!

GIVE EM HELL BOYZ!!!

my guess though is they offer you 1.2% for the 50 seater and maybe profit sharing. Other than that SGU is tighter than a nun.

 

[atlcrashpad]

Mis Management's proposal appears to be Pay cuts. Nothing actually said, but being competitive with other DCI carriers looks like cuts to me.

 

[~~~^~~~]

So why are we in any hurry to get this contract done? The Company can't seem to get its' negotiating position together, good. Lets just get a side letter of agreement addressing scheduling and go on down the road.

 

[atlcrashpad]

If it is Pay Cuts, then I'm not in any hurry. Pay cuts seem to be the answer to airline management. I guess two engine taxi, continued APU operations, and not charging $1 for a cup of soda will keep us in the Black. Good Ole pay cuts take the airline to profits galore. This way Mis Management can continue with their bonus program for performance. BL and his Vee Pee's get fat paychecks while pilots and F/A's get cut. Oh, don't forget your reduction in pass benefits......

 

[PBRstreetgang]

If it "ain't worth it", why don't you leave? You are free to make that decision for yourself, but you had better not make that decision for me. The "cost box" as you call it, while unpleasant, is a reality. Have you seen what happened to Coex today? They got out of the "cost box". So did CMR.

"Cost Box", you all will be out of the cost box at one time of another until mgmt. gets the lowest costs vs turnover. COEX is just the latest victim, someone will be the next victim in a month or so. For all of you that see a regional as a long term solution, be advised, your company does not want you to stay beyond a few years. My company, SKYW a few years ago published the infamous "widget" article, which stated that "the costs and productivity of a 5 year CPT vs a 15 year CPT were inclined towards the 5year CPT. Widgets do not care how much the flight crew gets paid. We had a CPT ask the company for a senority calculator so pilots could estimate their senority at their careers end with the company, I am sure the company shat upon themselves at that prospect.
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

It occurs to me that what we may be witnessing is not simple mismanagement, but an Atkin directed attempt to bust the union.

Hey,
Jerry and the kids think unions are the anti-christ, Harrison and Ford advise them on everything from toilet paper to crushing organizing attempts. Google Harrison and Ford for more details.
PBR

 

[COOPERVANE]

""Cost Box", you all will be out of the cost box at one time of another until mgmt. gets the lowest costs vs turnover"

Very well said. The box will only get smaller and smaller until the break even point for hiring and training replacement pilots for attrition is greater than the cost of a fair wage.

JUST SAY NO!

STAY OUT THA BOXES!

 

[Tomct]

:angryfireWell then we will see how their "Cost Box" works when 160 plus airplanes sit idle! They can all kiss my @ss! I have had it with this "...we are making No money crap...." They are making a Killing right now! We have them by the balls and it is time to SQUEEZE EM!!
Stike Vote Now!!

 

[goodto50meters]

Brain La Liar,

Thank you for inserting the final nail in your 'Box'.

Shove this proposal up your a$$.

Oh and happy new year finding some other place to screw.

Your loving line pilot,

GT50M

 

[wms]

The cost box is smoke and mirrors. The fact is SKW/ASA are very profitable, and what they are really trying to do is reduce their fees to DAL without reducing their profit margins. Whether it's greed or fear of losing capital they might need in harder times, they're picking the pockets of the employees to keep building the company coffers. They wouldn't lose money by meeting DAL's demands, it would reduce profits.

The real change they should start with is a good business plan. Eliminate redundancy in the infrastructure; have one GO, one OCC, one maintenance structure, one executive force, etc. Eliminate real waste such as round-trip dead-heading (yes, they schedule that), dead-heading to ferry airplanes that aren't there, building lines of flying for airplanes that don't exist and then having to cancel a whole day's line of flying.

Instead the operational changes have consisted of allowing the stations to lie about the departure times, telling us to reduce APU usage without telling the people who are supposed to bring us the GPUs, so we have to burn more fuel running the engines while we wait for a GPU or for the APU to fire up. And asking me to participate in a fuel savings initiative while docking my pay for more and more things each month. I've been doing single engine taxis ever since I upgraded years ago, and have always done the common sense thing. But I've gone cost neutral.

If consessions are needed, then they should be spread around. Include the non-departure-producing, standing-around-the coffe pot, non-phone-answering slackers at the GO. Cut their pay. Cut their benefits. Make them work 6 days for 5 days pay. We shouldn't bear the burden alone while this place is run into the ground by those who will then leave with their golden parachutes.

Develop a real business plan or find someone who can. Do what real leaders do and encourage employees. Treat us right and pay us well, and we'll be happy to make you look good and return ASA to the good place it once was.

 

[goodto50meters]

ASA management is not capable of accomplshing anything that resembles a descent airline.

When this thing tanks, they will all be gone and Jerry's kids will merge it.

This is LaLiar and his minions last hurrah before the music stops.

 

[atlcrashpad]

vote To Strike

 

[wms]

I think the company is trying to set us up to take SKW pay and work rules. It'll be SKW with possible 70 seat pay and their work rules. For me it has to include 100% retro pay. I hope we all see the danger of giving in. The cave on 70 seat rates at SKW have become terminal for all of us.

I have to say I'm disappointed with SKW,inc mgmt. We were led to believe they are a cut above, but they've shown themselves to have no more integrity than what we already had.